[BALANCE ISSUE] End Game T4/T5

Game Discussion Balance
#1

Currently, This game has no end game, if you call call getting owned repeatedly by ESB (Or owning them on occasion), and losing money either way  with the addition of never finding any purples even if you win 200 games…“end game”… I honestly don’t see the incentive to play anything above T3. 

 

The point of Endgame in an MMO is Loots, Money, and fun. End game in Star Conflict doesn’t have any of that.

 

If you win -

* 0.05% Chance to find a purple (about 1 chance in 500 - 1500 games or once every 3-9 months months for the casual player who does nothing but win games and never loses)

* Generally Lose More money in repairs then you made.

* Victory (Whatever that’s worth to you)

 

If you lose -

* No chance at purples

* Lose A LOT more money in repairs then you make, Lose a lot and your wallet will go into the negative. (lols)

* The nasty after taste of failcakes in your mouth

 

Nope, I’m not seeing a reason to even play T4 battles. As even if you win… You still Lose.

 

 

This should seriously be addressed and soon.

#2

This is part of the reason nobody plays T4.

 

The other part is that most people don’t have the equipment/rank for it either, but T2 sees much more play than T3 despite large numbers of players being able to play there, simply because the expense to profit ratio is better. People play T2 because it’s still fun and it’s the most profitable tier to play in, which means it’s the only way to realistically grind for new ships and equipment.

 

Higher tier play does not scale in rewards. Actually, rewards as stated, get worse the higher you go past T2. Why would I play T3, spending 4x - 10x as much on all my equipment and ships, while making less reward per battle. There is absolutely no incentive to move to a higher tier, other than to play with new toys, but that loses its appeal when you find there are not many people to play with and the exorbitant repair costs and low profit make the grind for new gear significantly longer.

 

Getting to a higher tier should be appealing. I should want to be playing in Tier 4 or 5! Instead, I prefer Tier 2 because I know it well, I make more money, there are more people to play with and I’m better equipped to play there.

 

If you want to get more people into the higher tiers, it needs to be more appealing than it is now. There need to be higher rewards, a loss should at least cover your repair costs, especially considering the increased cost of all the modules and gear. Higher chance of loot drops, more profit for a win than the previous tier down - these will draw players to higher tiers.

 

Less reward for playing in a higher tier, well… no surprise that few people want to play there.

#3

“[bALANCE ISSUE] End Game T4/T5”

 

please tell me more about the tier 5 endgame!

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/30333888.jpg

 

And for a serious answer:

 

“The point of Endgame in an MMORPG is Loots, Money, and fun. End game in Star Conflict doesn’t have any of that.” (fixed it for you)

 

This is a pvp game, it’s like LoL/Dota/Blacklight Retribution ect. There is no such thing as end game, only learning curve, which is really good with the tier system. Oh and there is loot, there is money and this game is the most fun that i played in years.

 

Edit:

lose “Lose A LOT more money in repairs then you make, Lose a lot and your wallet will go into the negative. (lols)”

There is no connection between your repair cost and the outcome of the match. You pay for deaths, and the money you get is affected by your placing in your team.

#4

“[bALANCE ISSUE] End Game T4/T5”

 

please tell me more about the tier 5 endgame!

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/30333888.jpg

 

And for a serious answer:

 

“The point of Endgame in an MMORPG is Loots, Money, and fun. End game in Star Conflict doesn’t have any of that.” (fixed it for you)

 

This is a pvp game, it’s like LoL/Dota/Blacklight Retribution ect. There is no such thing as end game, only learning curve, which is really good with the tier system. Oh and there is loot, there is money and this game is the most fun that i played in years.

 

Edit:

lose “Lose A LOT more money in repairs then you make, Lose a lot and your wallet will go into the negative. (lols)”

There is no connection between your repair cost and the outcome of the match. You pay for deaths, and the money you get is affected by your placing in your team.

Actually this game has PVE, and will continue to expand on this according to the devs, perhaps at some point into a persistent universe with quests missions etc.

 

So Yes Star Conflict is in fact, AN MMORPG, but thank you for correcting me on it. LOl has no PVE and No permanent loots or character design (beyond glyphs) which are bought with level points, It rewards no currency and has no real market system. Star conflict is a very MMORPGish type game.

 

Star Conflict is in fact no longer an MMO but an MMORPG because of ti’s PvE features. And MMO does not have PVE features. Unlike MMO’s such as Call of Duty, and LOL, etc.

 

Eve Online is an MMORPG even though eve online is almost exclusively PvP due to the way its set up, Yet it is still not an MMO because it has many many PVE aspects, Unlike LOL.

#5

Mowa, don’t argue with him, he is always right even when posting outright wrong information.

 

This game is f2p and its nice you finally understood, that without a license there isn’t much to be gained by playing T4.

#6

Actually this game has PVE, and will continue to expand on this according to the devs, perhaps at some point into a persistent universe with quests missions etc.

 

So Yes Star Conflict is in fact, AN MMORPG, but thank you for correcting me on it. LOl has no PVE and No permanent loots or character design (beyond glyphs) which are bought with level points, It rewards no currency and has no real market system. Star conflict is a very MMORPGish type game.

I was not clear.

In an mmorpg there is end game because the game has a story line, a linear progression and when you finished that you have to find something do do. That is endgame (be it as a dungeon farming / raid grindig or other monotonic/repetitive thing).

SC is not an mmorpg. What we call pve is a bot match. Is Unreal Tournament an mmorpg because it has bots? No.

I tried to point out that this game don’t have / don’t need “end game”. There is no story line that will and and needs to be replaced with some dungeon grinding. 

 

“Eve Online is an MMORPG even though eve online is almost exclusively PvP due to the way its set up, Yet it is still not an MMO because it has many many PVE aspects, Unlike LOL.”

Excuse me? Every mmorpg is an mmo, but not every mmo is an mmorpg. There is an MMO in the MMORPG as you can see xD

(MMORPG is a subcategory of the MMO category) 

#7

The point of Endgame in an MMO is 

 

This is no MMO, there is no persistent world. MMO is genre (persistent world that support hundreds to thousands of players at the same time (in the same area/battle)), you don’t say that 50 cent does heavy metal because X number of people listen him or that he does trance because only so few do, so why would you do that with MMO and games.  Planetside 2 is an MMO(FPS), if you want to compare on how the game and game world works. 

 

This is 12vs12 arcade space shooter.

But i wont go more into that as that’s off-topic (i think).

 

If you’re after purples, the PvE(scenarios) are for you. It’s still of course beta, so not all the features are in. But i would believe there will be clanwars (or “corpwars”) in the future.

#8

Does it really matter if it’s an MMO or MMORPG? I am pretty sure that a key component of both of these game types is “fun” (citation needed).

 

If you are not having this “fun”, there is a problem with the game for the particular person not having the “fun”.

There are now two options for dealing with the person not having the “fun”: Either he/she can be berated and insulted into leaving the game, or one can try to connect this state of mind with other people, to see if they too are sensing a lack of “fun”.

If the second alternative yields a meaningful frequency of similar thoughts, perhaps a developer response is in order on how to once more provide le “fun”?

 

As for me, I find that I am lacking the “fun” when it comes to T4, and I have a very limited amount of the “fun” when it comes to T3.

 

I find T2 to be the most balanced, since many of the later customization points ruin the gameplay for me.

To name a few of these irate aspects: frigate engine suppressors and pulsars (as they both annihilate interceptors), stasis field generators (as they annihilate non-frigates), frigate missile defense systems (as they render a whole faction’s worth of frigates obsolete), and railguns (they are useless when compared to plasma and laser).

 

I also find the role bonuses on each craft highly arbitrary, with some command craft getting +100% range and +30% effect, and some command craft getting -20% energy cost instead. Furthermore, some roles have very few modules in their field, while others get alot more.

There is also some odd blending with these roles, where protection frigates get highly offensive modules, something which I believe should be toned down and moved to offense or command craft instead.

 

Admittedly, I would not care so much about the monetary rewards if the matches could provide me with ample amounts of the “fun”, but that alas they do not currently do. Should that change, perhaps we might see a greater spread of players in the various tiers?

 

To condense why my enjoyment is important to the developers: If you provide me with an experience that I enjoy, I will pay to enhance that experience. If you force me to pay in order to have this initial enjoyable experience (something the license system is borderline guilty of), I will go elsewhere.

And last, I know this is a “beta”, though I’m not sure what that word implies anymore, but I will only pay for what I get right now, not for what I might at some point maybe get in the future (and I would have to pay for again at that point).

#9

This is no MMO, there is no persistent world. MMO is genre (persistent world that support hundreds to thousands of players at the same time (in the same area/battle)), you don’t say that 50 cent does heavy metal because X number of people listen him or that he does trance because only so few do, so why would you do that with MMO and games.  Planetside 2 is an MMO(FPS), if you want to compare on how the game and game world works.

and which letter stands for persistent world in the MMO…

“persistent world that support hundreds to thousands of players at the same time (in the same area/battle)”

So you say Vindictus, Rusty Hearts, C9, GW 1/2 and every other instanced based mmorpg is not even an mmo.

#10

and which letter stands for persistent world in the MMO…

Umm what? And which letter in RTS stands for controlling your troops with mouse? None, but it’s the norm for the genre.

World of Warcaft, MMORPG. If we take all the RPG elements away (levels, experience, story, quests etc. etc.) what we will have left in our hand? A persistent world, with basically nothing in it as we took them away (RPG elements).

Planetside 2, MMOFPS. If we take all the FPS elements away from, what will be left? Again a persistent (empty) world.

 

What do those 2 have same in their genre? MMO -part. What is actually same in the games itself? Persistent world and support for hundreds of players in the same place.

 

If we do the same to Star Conflict, what we’ll have in our hands? A Chat.

RTS games have had build in lobby’s with chats for multiplayer since forever, yet they don’t claim to be MMO’s. For a reason.

 

If one really wants to take the abbreviation MMO literally, word by word. Lets go and do that.

First M - “massively”. Is 12vs.12 massive? Well not really, so it’s not a MMO then.

 

Oh the game shows how many people are online & playing? Well many games do that, Company of Heroes for example, yet it isn’t MMO. Even steam shows players playing and adds a chat to games, wouldn’t that make Skyrim or Far Cry 3 an MMO then?

 

So you say Vindictus, Rusty Hearts, C9, GW 1/2 and every other instanced based mmorpg is not even an mmo.

How i’m saying that? GW 1 & 2 got persistent worlds, GW1’s is heavily instanced and not open, but it’s there. You can have hundreds of players in the same ‘spamadan’ instance with you. GW2 is only instanced for PvP/Raids and got open world, so i don’t know why you got that in your example list of instanced games. I’ve never played or heard about the first 3, so cannot really comment on them.

 

But when it comes to GW1, many people say it is not mmorpg because it’s so heavily instanced and not open. But a online/multiplayer RPG instead. Go and create a thread about that in mmorpg forums (for example) and you’ll be getting about 50-50 yes and no answers. When you do that to World of Tanks (or Star Conflict) you’ll be getting no’s for majority of your answers.

 

edit;

One could also go by wiki definition (yes, anyone could troll edit those to be what ever they want, but the wiki definition has be as it is like forever).

 

A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG)

 

Comparison to other games

There are a number of factors shared by most MMOGs that make them different from other types of games. MMOGs create a persistent universe where the game milieu continues regardless of interaction

 

…

 

Most MMOGs also share other characteristics that make them different from other multiplayer online games. MMOGs host a large number of players in a single game world, and all of those players can interact with each other at any given time.

 

…

 

To support all those players, MMOGs need large-scale game worlds, and servers to connect players to those worlds. Some games have all of their servers connected so all players are connected in a shared universe. Others have copies of their starting game world put on different servers, called “shards”, for a sharded universe. Shards got their name from Ultima Online, where in the story, the shards of Mondain’s gem created the duplicate worlds.

Still others will only use one part of the universe at any time. For example, Tribes (which is not an MMOG) comes with a number of large maps, which are played in rotation (one at a time). In contrast, the similar title PlanetSide allows all map-like areas of the game to be reached via flying, driving, or teleporting.

 

This game is really closer to Battlefield or Counter-Strike (not MMO games) than to Planetside or GW2 (MMO games).

 

edit2:

Definition on thefreedictionary:

 

 

Massively multiplayer online game

A  massively multiplayer online game  (also called  MMO ) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet, and feature at least one persistent world.

#11

“A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet, and feature at least one persistent world.”

like SC? i can team up with anyone and go for a pvp or a scenario. Will it change your opinion when corps can build their big ships and do corp vs corp? (aka “guild wars”)

“GW 1 & 2 got persistent worlds” no they don’t, they got instanced maps, just like SC. (they even have the 2 type insta.:pvp where is no npcs and pve with npcs (bots if you like)

I do not know how battlefield work, but CS/Team Fortress is not an mmo because there is no interaction between the masses, you choose a small server and only from there you can interact with the others.

I don’t know why everyone thinks that an mmo is an mmorpg. Maybe wow has this side effect.

So we agree to disagree, enough of the off topic (even if the OP is a BS)

#12

 I have to say that I’m really enjoying this open beta. I understand that not all the features are in place yet and that not everything is yet balanced. I’m only in t2 atm, and haven’t gotten as far as you guys. But, I am looking forward to seeing how the game progresses.

 I like the role system for the ships, ECM, Energy Suppression  ect for inty’s, but they are more suggestive than required at this point. The only really difference I’ve notice is that on Tackler fighters, the hull is a lot higher. I’d like to see more stat shifts like that for the different roles. But I’m sure that will come or I’ll research a bit more and find it’s already there lol.

 And I really hope to see more balanced active module system for the different roles. There are 12 for frigs, 9 for fighters, and only 6 for inty’s. There are lots of not role specific modules still out tho. And i’d like to see more balance, there is only one active module for engineering or tackler roles. I’m sure it will come in time as it is only beta. 

 All in all great game so far, I really look forward to how the game will progress. Oh and as to if it’s a mmo or not, that’s thought to say at this point, but we can at least assume everything isn’t implemented yet as it’s only beta. At some point those feature might present them selves, but for now the PvP and scenarios are a great way for the design team to balance everything!