What is up with this?
And this is mk1 not in slot, without ammo
14 minutes ago, _terrorblade said:
What is up with this?
And this is mk1 not in slot, without ammo
The effective DPS is far slower since the projectile speed is only ~100m/s and also it overheats really fast, so you can kill destroyers and frigates quite good with it but eveything that is faster then an empire fighter fan evade the slow bubbles. The active mode is like a Plasma cannon but with a constant low spread and a bit less DMG. So wsht makes this weapon strong IMO is that you have both a fast mode with ‘normal’ DPS and a slow bubbles mode to rape destroyers.
This gun is mounted on a ship that can slow you into oblivion with missiles and the stupid sattelite crystal. The bubbles are a major threat even for fighters.
43 minutes ago, John161 said:
The effective DPS is far slower since the projectile speed is only ~100m/s and also it overheats really fast, so you can kill destroyers and frigates quite good with it but eveything that is faster then an empire fighter fan evade the slow bubbles. The active mode is like a Plasma cannon but with a constant low spread and a bit less DMG. So wsht makes this weapon strong IMO is that you have both a fast mode with ‘normal’ DPS and a slow bubbles mode to rape destroyers.
hits slow fighters pretty consistently and ofc frigates take all of that DPS.
Besides, that’s more DPS than covert ops 
doesn’t make sense
You can fire only two rounds before overheating, take into account the EM resistances, you can use the Supercooled charges to make it more effective but its only good against slow targets, will still have a hard time hammering a guard down for example, might as well use the Scatter Gun.
it’s not a consistent killer weapon, but it is a sudden wtf you got killed weapon
dunno why people defend this weapon, imho its not fun, and while its not op anymore, i still consider it bad taste. also it seems to work for spam still.
the phaser is much better balanced than this, challenging and fun
imho they could have introduced elly weapons later, once the ships are balanced, and make the ships use existing weapons first.
From the ideas they crammed up in so far 3 elly ships they could have done like 50 other ships with one unique ability each, probably make more money and balance it better since they dont have time to balance dozens of different aspects of one (or 3) ship(s) and still make it viable as something you would play or pay for.
Also what g4borg said
14 minutes ago, g4borg said:
dunno why people defend this weapon, imho its not fun, and while its not op anymore, i still consider it bad taste. also it seems to work for spam still.
the phaser is much better balanced than this, challenging and fun
imho they could have introduced elly weapons later, once the ships are balanced, and make the ships use existing weapons first.
Numbers:
Sphere:
effective rpm: ~65
dmg per shot: 3133
-> DPS: 3394
-> with crit: ~4400
Short burst dmg (4 spheres in ~1.5sec)
“DPS”: 8671 (on average every 2nd sphere is a crit, so 13k dps)
total dmg: 12500 (23k if all are crits)
Cool down: 3sec, twice as long as you shoot.
Tai’Kin with good old Pulse Lasers and curved reflector:
effective DPS: 2k (with crit around 2.8k (Cov Ops would be around 3.2k))
Tai’Kin with RF-Blaster:
effective DPS: 2.3k (with crit around 3.2k)
In total: WTF why does Crystal Infiltrator gives you more dmg (over time) than the Orion Targeting Complex.
Back on topic: Imo the problem with Thar’Ok’beamer isn’t the Sphere mode but that it has 2modes, and the ‘normal’ mode is Like a Plasma Gun with only a little bit less dps ~10% but therefore higher projectile speed and always a really low spread, So you don’t have ANY downside if you use this weapon instead of a Plasma Gun. (And that the sphere is kinda strong if you slow a ships to standstill)
10 minutes ago, John161 said:
Numbers:
Sphere:
effective rpm: ~65
dmg per shot: 3133
-> DPS: 3394
-> with crit: ~4400Short burst dmg (4 spheres in ~1.5sec)
“DPS”: 8671 (on average every 2nd sphere is a crit, so 13k dps)
total dmg: 12500 (23k if all are crits)
Cool down: 3sec, twice as long as you shoot.
Tai’Kin with good old Pulse Lasers and curved reflector:
effective DPS: 2k (with crit around 2.8k (Cov Ops would be around 3.2k))
Tai’Kin with RF-Blaster:
effective DPS: 2.3k (with crit around 3.2k)
In total: WTF why does Crystal Infiltrator gives you more dmg (over time) than the Orion Targeting Complex.
Back on topic: Imo the problem with Thar’Ok’beamer isn’t the Sphere mode but that it has 2modes, and the ‘normal’ mode is Like a Plasma Gun with only a little bit less dps ~10% but therefore higher projectile speed and always a really low spread, So you don’t have ANY downside if you use this weapon instead of a Plasma Gun. (And that the sphere is kinda strong if you slow a ships to standstill)
I mostly agree with numbers, but to do that average dps you have to have 104m/s spheres, which actually makes problematic to hit a target other than destroyer. OFC, if you slow it down with slowing missile and modules - then yes, but it will still only add frigates.
Difference between Orion and Crystal Infiltrator is that Orion boosts only your damage, while CI only boost allies damage (not your own ship).
46 minutes ago, niripas said:
I mostly agree with numbers, but to do that average dps you have to have 104m/s spheres, which actually makes problematic to hit a target other than destroyer. OFC, if you slow it down with slowing missile and modules - then yes, but it will still only add frigates.
The numbers are there for an ideal situation where everything hits. I know that it is hard if not impossible to hit anything that is faster than an empire gunship, that why I said that the sphere/slow bubble mode isn’t IMO that much of a problem. Also I pointed out the projectile speed problem in my first comment.
49 minutes ago, niripas said:
Difference between Orion and Crystal Infiltrator is that Orion boosts only your damage, while CI only boost allies damage (not your own ship).
I know, I just was surprised that it is that much (33% compared to Orion with 27%), which makes Tai’Kin Imo stronger for a fast dmg dealer (especially when having a team behind you that is also attacking) than a CovOps.
4 minutes ago, John161 said:
The numbers are there for an ideal situation where everything hits. I know that it is hard if not impossible to hit anything that is faster than an empire gunship, that why I said that the sphere/slow bubble mode isn’t IMO that much of a problem. Also I pointed out the projectile speed problem in my first comment.
I know, I just was surprised that it is that much (33% compared to Orion with 27%), which makes Tai’Kin Imo stronger for a fast dmg dealer (especially when having a team behind you that is also attacking) than a CovOps.
Orion gives 127% not 27% …
16 minutes ago, xKostyan said:
Orion gives 127% not 27% …
108% If you have no bonus on Cov Ops modules. And over the complete battle it gives you ~27% more dmg then without.
1 hour ago, niripas said:
I mostly agree with numbers, but to do that average dps you have to have 104m/s spheres, which actually makes problematic to hit a target other than destroyer. OFC, if you slow it down with slowing missile and modules - then yes, but it will still only add frigates.
Difference between Orion and Crystal Infiltrator is that Orion boosts only your damage, while CI only boost allies damage (not your own ship).
Pretty sure they’re homing. I’ve been hit almost 100% in engineer frig and the taikin was just flying around like mad not even aiming at me… I strafed constantly but the spheres would just follow
So I don’t think projectile speed is much of an issue as long as target is relatively slow or big
56 minutes ago, John161 said:
108% If you have no bonus on Cov Ops modules. And over the complete battle it gives you ~27% more dmg then without.
And why do we compare a module made for a burst dmg to a constant dmg output through the battle again?
And I can bet that you are not doing dmg at every instance in a battle, making damage through the battle provided by an Orion is much higher than what you throw into comparison, because when you are in a position to do dmg in a CovOp, your Orion is available to you, giving it a very high up time.
13 minutes ago, _terrorblade said:
Pretty sure they’re homing. I’ve been hit almost 100% in engineer frig and the taikin was just flying around like mad not even aiming at me… I strafed constantly but the spheres would just follow
So I don’t think projectile speed is much of an issue as long as target is relatively slow or big
Yep, they are homing.
9 minutes ago, xKostyan said:
And why do we compare a module made for a burst dmg to a constant dmg output through the battle again?
Why shouldn’t I compare two modules? If I compare two ships/two classes I don’t look at everything separate and say I can’t compare a with b because it is not exactly the same. If I want to compare the main weapon dmg of a Tai’Kin with a Covert Ops it is only useful to take a look at active modules and how they would affect it, Orion and Crystal Infiltrators are both one of these modules.
1 hour ago, John161 said:
Why shouldn’t I compare two modules? If I compare two ships/two classes I don’t look at everything separate and say I can’t compare a with b because it is not exactly the same. If I want to compare the main weapon dmg of a Tai’Kin with a Covert Ops it is only useful to take a look at active modules and how they would affect it, Orion and Crystal Infiltrators are both one of these modules.
2
One module supposed to boosts your dps at the moments, when you need it, another boosts dps of your allies on the target whenever they shoot at it, if ever.
ok.
Concept that make recon or engineer deathly ship is all wrong and now we have all this mess.
Not only main gun, also active modules that make 30K damage are bad for game.
Tai’kin should not be named recon but super fast small self healing fighter.
definition of RECON ; to observe-explore!!!
And not like now that we can kill dessy with it.
I agree recon should be fast and hard to hit, but no fire power at all, just support modules , like micro-locator, spy drones ect something in that way.
Even if I really like this game I still cry for original SC before destroyers gave us DARK AGE and before Stevi Wonder was main tester.
Then all ships ware BALANCED ( DEVS+TESTERS please search at old vocabulary for that word )
T’Har’Ok only good against VERY slow targets.
I whish the Ellydium Wazgot frigate had such a combination of a weapon (#1 against faster targets, #2 against slow/big targets)
it easily hits fighters and ints cause of all the slows. crystal basically stops you dead in your tracks and then you get bubbles pooped all over your head ”) recently the game gained sooo much slows that it is getting to the point where your speed stops to matter. i think the slow immune on multi activation needs to be reinstated for 5 sec, not the measly 2 that is currently