200x400=80.000 GS for a R14 dessi..

Ships
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1 hour ago, Scar6 said:

If you have trouble with Hunters in Open Space, try resonating ammunition for double damage, stack EM restistances and use your Wormhole to prevent getting surrounded. The Blaster Turret can be effective at keeping these alien frigates next to you broadside aswell.

You can also make use of police ships and police stations for fire support.

 

Destroyers in general are not designed to be long range killer ships, thats the job of LRF. Neither are they premier damage dealers, since thats covered by Gunships. They are also not close range area deniel tanks, thats the job of Guards.

 

Think of destroyers as a long range area denial tool. You can effectively prevent enemy ships from fighting in certain areas of the map due to your high, sustainable damage output of Meson Cannons (and Coilguns). Pyro Emitters can quickly scatter frigballs and the Gravitational Lens (incredibly annoying module) gives heavier enemy ships (and allies) a very tough time. It even uncloaks Tacklers.

 

If destroyers aren’t suppose to be good at this and that…  then why are they so insanely costly to build, and why are their active modules

so hard to obtain compared to other ships ?.  They’re not suppose to be great tanks, not the best dps, not the longest range, and

definatly not the most agile (duhh)…    They suffer from insane 300% damage penatly.

 

Yet… their required resources and modules requires weeks if not months to aqcuire - where’s the logic in that?.

 

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14 minutes ago, Progenitor2 said:

 

If destroyers aren’t suppose to be good at this and that…  then why are they so insanely costly to build, and why are their active modules

so hard to obtain compared to other ships ?.  They’re not suppose to be great tanks, not the best dps, not the longest range, and

definatly not the most agile (duhh)…    They suffer from insane 300% damage penatly.

 

Yet… their required resources and modules requires weeks if not months to aqcuire - where’s the logic in that?.

 

… look they were designed to <<evolve>> the game and give pilots who were into the game to have some thing new to grind/pay for…

Destroyers were given out in SC v.1.3.x ‘Age of destroyers’ – and their appearance gave the game a boost in player numbers and sales, probably. Players were enthusiastic or rather reserverd and took part in the pre-design phase of destroyers in a design contest for players or in the discussions in the forum, respectively - it was ań interesting time. Due to multiple problems they are nerfed the state they are now to keep them compatible with the overall game.

Your logic is reasonable, but the game developed the way it did since 2015 …

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2 hours ago, Progenitor2 said:

 

If destroyers aren’t suppose to be good at this and that…  then why are they so insanely costly to build, and why are their active modules

so hard to obtain compared to other ships ?.  They’re not suppose to be great tanks, not the best dps, not the longest range, and

definatly not the most agile (duhh)…    They suffer from insane 300% damage penatly.

 

Yet… their required resources and modules requires weeks if not months to aqcuire - where’s the logic in that?.

 

They are suppressor class. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressive_fire

Think - guy with M60 machine gun is not effective at close range, med effective at the medium range and he doesn’t have a long range sniper capability. Send to him a platoon of foot soldiers - he will wipe it out (e.a demomen in Defence Contract), send a single commando using cover and attacking with a knife - he will be almost helpless against such a threat. Same story with marine that will be allowed to close range to 50 meters with assault rifle (analogue of gunship). In time it takes to get M60 up from the stand and redirect it to engage that target - it will be a game over.

 

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So you have a ship that has limited use in the gameplay,  is nothing but a glorified floating brick in open space,

get heavily penalized in pve with AI doing tons of bonus damage…  AND the ship requires an extreme amount of rare

resources to build… including the ones that is only attainable during the events that occur 4 times per year…

 

Also… 1 single group of demomen will nuke a destroyer.  I’ve had my Archon lose its 80k shields instantly from demoman’s.

 

Why have resources SO hard to get for a ship that is severely limited in use and severely penalized ?.

 

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1 hour ago, Progenitor2 said:

So you have a ship that has limited use in the gameplay,  is nothing but a glorified floating brick in open space,

get heavily penalized in pve with AI doing tons of bonus damage…  AND the ship requires an extreme amount of rare

resources to build… including the ones that is only attainable during the events that occur 4 times per year…

 

Ok, let’s get something straight here. The only Destroyers that require activators are the R14s. And if you tell me that this ship is useless in PvE - I am sorry, I will laugh. Hard.

One R8 is practically given for free - you can build one after playing  less than 200 coop games (yes, I  created a new account and checked that - as soon as you hit R8 you have enough resources to build one). Second one requires just another 100 games. 

R11 requires beryllium and there is no task for that, but beryllium drops now even if you play non-maxed R11+ ships. You have to forgive me for not trying and telling you how many games you need for that.

However on my another account that just hit 145 hours in battle I’m just finishing the last destroyer - Sirius. Is that a lot? Yes. Is it worth it? Hmm. I can take Tyrant and finish off the cruiser in less than 45 seconds. So yes. 

Also - all ships have limited use - that’s what’s called rock-paper-scissors. I wouldn’t go against cruiser in ECM, but I wouldn’t go for the third stage of Processing Rig in gunship (or recon) as well, but for Destroyer SpecOps one ECM is a godsend.

 

1 hour ago, Progenitor2 said:

Also… 1 single group of demomen will nuke a destroyer.  I’ve had my Archon lose its 80k shields instantly from demoman’s.

Told you already - watch my video. I only lost my shields once - on purpose. Honestly - you have to be in the very bad spot on map to allow demomen to even get close to you. One Halo shot annihilates the whole squad, especially on that low level of difficulty, EM turret penetrates the Turtle shield and clears them in seconds. And if in doubt - increase the distance.

 

1 hour ago, Progenitor2 said:

Why have resources SO hard to get for a ship that is severely limited in use and severely penalized ?.

Maybe this ship is just not for you? I know people that can fly gunships like champs but for their life cannot get hang on engie. Or tacklers. Or LRFs.

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On 2018-01-20 at 9:40 PM, Progenitor2 said:

No i don’t expect destroyers to be immortal. I just expect them to be worth building.

And a ship that performs that poorly in OS, isn’t worth the insane amount of money and resources.

 

You are right about “worth building” and they were! Destros were free and easy to get when they appeared first. In general best thing to do in Star Conflict is to follow events. Now you better go and collect xenochips - make OP gunship build or something.

 

If you are asking “what should I do if I missed that event but I want that ship”? My answer “for sure dont build with bundles” buy few if you need little amount. Sure there will be events focusing on electrum/activators. Just like you can get neodium so easy now and it was super hard to find it before.

27

3 hours ago, niripas said:

people that can fly gunships like champs but for their life cannot get hang on engie. Or tacklers. Or LRFs.

 

lX0FgFf.jpg

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Destroyers definitely aren’t in a good spot right now. I’m not saying they should be better than other ships, but let’s be real here, they basically cost $150 worth of GS to build and fit, so you should get something that isn’t endlessly frustrating.

 

If the destroyer was a straight up premium ship it would have no repair cost, earn 20% free synergy, and also get a money and credit bonus, but nope. It’s ten times more expensive than a premium ship, gets none of the benefits of being one, gets a bunch of added downsides like huge respawn timers, slow warp ins, absurd cost of modules, inability to do daily missions that require a rank 15, and isn’t even considered a top tier competitive ship. 

29

Stop measuring power in costs. But in the same time every other 9v9 in T5 is heavily influenced by a smart Destroyer player even in their current state.

We all here agree on how expensive their maintenance is, and how easy to die if you get caught with your pant’s down, but in the same time, if player is smart quite often it feels impossible to kill or to deal with. They really are hit or miss. Still they are almost irreplaceable in leagues and Dreadnought battles, and carry PvE with closed eyes.

30

At least when it comes to the premium ship bonuses I think I can very much complain that a ship that costs 10 times as much GS to meaningfully fit doesn’t get any of them.

 

I’m not saying destroyers should be more powerful than other ships, but they do get penalized in obnoxious ways that have no real justification. For example, increased respawn and warp in times are a penalty you’d give a unit that IS more powerful, but they aren’t, so why do they get this penalty? 

31

Why are you measuring it’s cost in GS? It is not it’s prime method of acquisition, it is an alternative, it is not even meant to be purchased 100% for GS, that much is a simple common sense.  

32

 

We are measuring the cost because the R14 destroyers has an insane amount of it, yet they’re rendered useless

when compared to the effectiveness of much much easier to obtain ships.

Rank14 destroyers are considered ENDGAME and they are locked behind a event-only resources that occurs once

every 3-4 months… components that costs 400GS each to buy at minimum.

 

If these ships aren’t suppose to be that effective, then they’re not COST-effective and thus… an ENDGAME ship that isn’t worth building.

 

It would be like having the Hammer of Sulfuros in WoW easily outdamaged by a measly green-level item in WoW, how many you think

would actually spend time crafting that hammer then ?.

 

You can take a Tyrant, and i can take pretty much ANY ship with ANY weapons, and i would easily outdmg it’s shieldregen for example.

 

33

1 hour ago, Progenitor2 said:

 

You can take a Tyrant, and i can take pretty much ANY ship with ANY weapons, and i would easily outdmg it’s shieldregen for example.

 

 

And three seconds later you would be annihilated out of existence by the ships absurd damage output. You shouldn’t be able to out regen damage. That’s called invincibility.

 

1 hour ago, Progenitor2 said:

 

It would be like having the Hammer of Sulfuros in WoW easily outdamaged by a measly green-level item in WoW, how many you think

would actually spend time crafting that hammer then ?.

 

 

 

This isn’t WoW. Ships are supposed to be equally viable, with slight advantages going to higher ranks logically. A Vigilant would overcome an Invincible handily, but it doesn’t make an Invincible any less viable, and doesn’t stop it from doing some not inconsiderate damage to the Vigilant in the process. 

 

1 hour ago, Progenitor2 said:

 

If these ships aren’t suppose to be that effective, then they’re not COST-effective and thus… an ENDGAME ship that isn’t worth building.

 

 

Not supposed to be cost-effective. They are supposed to be something that keeps you occupied and that is quite integral when acquired. May I point out the rank 7-9 Spec Ops would be impossible for the average player without Destroyers?  Any  _Endgame _ship is worth building simply because it’s end game. 

 

1 hour ago, Progenitor2 said:

 

We are measuring the cost because the R14 destroyers has an insane amount of it, yet they’re rendered useless

when compared to the effectiveness of much much easier to obtain ships.

Rank14 destroyers are considered ENDGAME and they are locked behind a event-only resources that occurs once

every 3-4 months… components that costs 400GS each to buy at minimum.

 

 

Yes they cost an insane amount. All of said cost can be acquired without spending any GS or real money. You keep using the term, “Rendered useless.” Nothing Endgame is useless. A Destroyer in R14 is invaluable. Also, you are far overstating the GS cost of and R14 dessie. Not only that but an R14 dessie is the only destroyer that is particularly difficult to acquire. R8 dessies are pathetically easy to get. R11 is bothersome, but no big deal, just a bit of time. The R14 is the only one that starts to get into the insurmountable wall of resources. Except it’s easily surmountable.

34

1 hour ago, WolfInnocence said:

 

And three seconds later you would be annihilated out of existence by the ships absurd damage output. You shouldn’t be able to out regen damage. That’s called invincibility.

 

 

A R14 destroyer being able to regentank a single fighter’s dps isn’t invincibility, it’s called  required teamwork to kill a destoryer.

I’ve stated it before and i will never change my stance on this, a single fighter should not be able to kill a destroyer, especially not a R14.

Render them inoperable with ECM or temporarely destroying its modules yes… but not kill it.

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34 minutes ago, Progenitor2 said:

 

A R14 destroyer being able to regentank a single fighter’s dps isn’t invincibility, it’s called  required teamwork to kill a destoryer.

I’ve stated it before and i will never change my stance on this, a single fighter should not be able to kill a destroyer, especially not a R14.

Render them inoperable with ECM or temporarely destroying its modules yes… but not kill it.

 

So even a Premium Spark with Supernova singularity shouldn’t be able to kill it? Sparks are even a rank above an R14. It should not take 2 people to kill 1 ships. It’s ok that it should take teamwork to kill a ship _effectively. _But being completely omnipotent 1v1 is bs of the highest order. Think about those pvp matches were you get launched in as only yourself and the enemy. What if the other guy is a vet with his fancy max synergy fully upgraded R14 Dessie? But you only have your R15 Spark and haven’t gotten your R14 dessie yet? What then? Are you just gonna die? Because that’s what you’re saying. That all other ships should be inferior to a dessie in every way except if teamwork is involved. That is not how SC works. A covert ops can take out a Guard even though they are on opposite sides of the weight class spectrum. Thats how SC has always been. Just because your ships is bigger and tanker and takes more resources doesn’t put it in a class of it’s own that can’t be touched without strategy. It’s perfectly reasonable to make it annoying to destroy without strategy, but to make a ship _specifically require _multiple ships to kill it at all… It’s silly. It would completely break the balance.

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A spark is just Pay-to-win, and i’ve never supported that either…

Effort should always trump Creditcard.

 

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1 minute ago, Progenitor2 said:

 

A spark is just Pay-to-win, and i’ve never supported that either…

Effort should always trump Creditcard.

 

 

Are you hearing what your saying? You’ve been comparing a R14 dessie to cheaper alternatives like the Spark. Which is valid given your measuring everything in GS. Spark is not Pay-to-win. It has no other power except sheer damage which is only 10% more than other high damage craft. It also takes significant skill to use effectively. Kostyan for example. Your just contradicting yourself. You haven’t even acknowledged any of the flaws in your argument. An Apollo or Lightbringer are exactly the same as Spark minus 10% damage and plus 6-13% critical. And crit builds are just as viable, especially on gunships, as raw damage. What was saying with a Supernova singularity on the Spark can just as easily be replicated on it’s vanilla alternatives. Now we have a ship that took some old fashion elbow grease to get. Is that supposed to roll over too? No ship should be by far superior to any other ships. Some disparity in rank difference is acceptable. But that isn’t an unbelievable chasm unless your comparing rank 1-3 or something to rank 15.

 

I understand where you’re coming from. Dessies need a little tlc. But what your proposing that they become is ludicrous.

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I don’t remember ever seeing a space game where you could 1v1 a destroyer ship class…

39

31 minutes ago, EndeavSTEEL said:

I don’t remember ever seeing a space game where you could 1v1 a destroyer ship class…

 

That’s other games, not this one. Just because another game does a thing, doesn’t mean this one should.

40

18 minutes ago, WolfInnocence said:

 

That’s other games, not this one. Just because another game does a thing, doesn’t mean this one should.

I just think it that makes more sense, and that might be why so many ppls are complaining