Heavily Unbalanced PvP

[17324559]

1 hour ago, ComWittman said:

Seems that you’re not having issues with the current mm for some reason, I just  can’t understand why. A while back I’ve played a few rounds Vs/with you and saw you have a 178 win streak, now that seems very impressive and I’m sure you’re a skilled player, care to share some valid tips for the rest of us that arent that skilled [perhaps not skilled at all] so that we wont be losing 9 out of 10 rounds ?

Back to the query in hand, I’ve seen at the forum several players talking about a “method” for winning. Can’t comprehend any of that, I only know how to do my best for the win with the ships I have and the game experience I’ve gained over time here. Despite the fact that I had to grind a lot of pve for credits mainly, the mode I enjoy playing is pvp. At this point can say one thing, unless the pvp mm wont improve in such way so that equal chances are given to both teams and the current horrid situation come to an end, I’ll have no other option but to quit. Despite the fact that I consider this game great, amazing visuals/models/concept and the list can go on forever, the mm got me to a point that I want to quit. Instead off playing and having fun, each and every round is so disappointing that it accumulates such amount of frustration that turns to anger. I’ve heard of people rage quitting and couldnt understand that, yesterday I’ve done my self, while in full screen Ive turned to window mode and simply closed the game because there is no option “return to hangar”.

Thumbs up to the OP IFreakinLoveBass and of course thumbs down to all those that disagree through their hypocrisy and biased judgement.

EDIT: @EndeavSTEEL, at some other thread you’ve estimated/claimed that I’m a NASA alt account member, well I state here and now and in all honesty that is NOT the case. I am not a part of any corporation and for the time being do not wish to join any. There are a couple of forum regulars, in fact one of them is an old player, and know for a FACT that I am not a NASA alt, never been in NASA [or what to be for that matter] and that this is my main character.

As you can see on http://ts2.scorpclub.ru/api/v1/userinfo.php?nickname=Wittman you had bad few last days, but taking a look from the last MM change - you are close to having same amount of won games as lost games. So matchmaker works for you. As you said by yourself - you are not that skilled, so you can’t carry the game. Which will put you in the group of “Average” players (please - this is not an insult - average as in mathematical definition). Heck, there was even discussion about it in the global chat yesterday. I did some research and indeed - what defines a good MM is that if it takes an average person and it will give that person fair fights. So average person queuing for random battles will have their amount of victories close to the amount of loses. Otherwise MM will not be fair (again - in mathematical meaning).

And if you want to change it there are actually two methods for having higher W/L ratio.

First one is to get exceptionally good. Which means - ability to carry the game (and Kosty has it). 

Second one is to play with the team. It was always like this - 2 pilots playing together and communicating are worth more than 2 random pilots doing their stuff. In NASA we had full documentation written by some smart people that explained it in details. If you are going to play random battles - you just cannot be a single role pilot. Flexibility is the key. I am very crappy intie pilot, but sometimes if situation requires it - I have to hop in in the intie to fulfill the missing role on the battlefield.

What scares me is that there is a very serious gap between old players that  were doing their research, practicing in custom battles, simulating situations on the battlefield and relatively new players that they expect to win in every situation without even basic team coordination. I like Star Conflict because it involves a lot of tactical thinking, builds, roles. It’s not a typical pew pew game. But I see more and more of players that think it is, resulting in pretty horrible matches.

[6682534]

12 minutes ago, niripas said:

First one is to get exceptionally good. Which means - ability to carry the game (and Kosty has it). 

 

[3487991]

3 minutes ago, Tillowaty said:

Ey dilli o/

[37508612]

56 minutes ago, niripas said:

As you can see on http://ts2.scorpclub.ru/api/v1/userinfo.php?nickname=Wittman you had bad few last days, but taking a look from the last MM change - you are close to having same amount of won games as lost games. So matchmaker works for you. As you said by yourself - you are not that skilled, so you can’t carry the game. Which will put you in the group of “Average” players (please - this is not an insult - average as in mathematical definition). Heck, there was even discussion about it in the global chat yesterday. I did some research and indeed - what defines a good MM is that if it takes an average person and it will give that person fair fights. So average person queuing for random battles will have their amount of victories close to the amount of loses. Otherwise MM will not be fair (again - in mathematical meaning).

And if you want to change it there are actually two methods for having higher W/L ratio.

First one is to get exceptionally good. Which means - ability to carry the game (and Kosty has it). 

Second one is to play with the team. It was always like this - 2 pilots playing together and communicating are worth more than 2 random pilots doing their stuff. In NASA we had full documentation written by some smart people that explained it in details. If you are going to play random battles - you just cannot be a single role pilot. Flexibility is the key. I am very crappy intie pilot, but sometimes if situation requires it - I have to hop in in the intie to fulfill the missing role on the battlefield.

What scares me is that there is a very serious gap between old players that  were doing their research, practicing in custom battles, simulating situations on the battlefield and relatively new players that they expect to win in every situation without even basic team coordination. I like Star Conflict because it involves a lot of tactical thinking, builds, roles. It’s not a typical pew pew game. But I see more and more of players that think it is, resulting in pretty horrible matches.

Thank you for the tool, however I don’t know whether its a Sc tool and how accurate or inaccurate it is. Regardless, I see the games I’m playing and I see my lossesand right now and for the past month my game is bad, there is no other way to put it. I don’t really expect you to admit that but in all honesty since I still have the ability to understand when I lost, how many games I won, there is hardly anything else to add here.

I’ll just post a screenshot of my last game, it was survival and more or less against a team at 50% with players that I played the previous 4-5 rounds and lost. Its great to suggest methods to deal with the loss s long as can be applicable, I doubt at this point and with the current state are of any help. If the bottom line is that for someone to play SC should be a highly skilled player and average gamers cant or they will be consumed/be on the loss, that would be really interesting…

“ability to carry the game (and Kosty has it).” Well, I made a direct questin about the said player, how is it even possible to have a 178 win streak. As for their ability to carry the team, I’d be glad to hear the how-to.

Edit, no idea how to post a screenshot here…

 

[3487991]

24 minutes ago, ComWittman said:

how is it even possible to have a 178 win streak

just play in the american timezone ”)

[6682534]

1 hour ago, Oregyen said:

Ey dilli o/

Artista.

[37508612]

2 hours ago, Oregyen said:

just play in the american timezone ”)

Even that can give a 178 win streak ! Regardless, I’d like to see the recipe from the chef it self.

[26589155]

12 minutes ago, ComWittman said:

Even that can give a 178 win streak ! Regardless, I’d like to see the recipe from the chef it self.

 

It was possible to win 178 games if you played in squad low rank games and MM (was) is made so that you always get better players on your side.

 

Now he is making videos to show how he is good in R8 ship against R 12 but he didn’t write that he have +40% (unbalanced) bonus on damage and hull.

 

Back on topic: 

I had an experience when I asked one of really good players how is possible that he is not in squad and he always get in PvP game with same four other players on same side that all have win loss ratio more then 1.6. (Two of them >+2.5)

All players were Russian.

 

The answer was we have the way.

 

I  know that many here will not belive this. But that is exactly what happened.

 

Also for record I do belive that MM is made so that it favorite certain players here.

[6682534]

51 minutes ago, GatoGrande said:

It was possible to win 178 games if you played in squad low rank games and MM (was) is made so that you always get better players on your side.

 

nah, just first half a year with elly  

[26589155]

21 minutes ago, Tillowaty said:

nah, just first half a year with elly  

Heh yes, Millf was farming people when Tharga was immortal.

But then again xKostyan is not Millf.

[37508612]

1 hour ago, GatoGrande said:

 

It was possible to win 178 games if you played in squad low rank games and MM (was) is made so that you always get better players on your side.

 

Now he is making videos to show how he is good in R8 ship against R 12 but he didn’t write that he have +40% (unbalanced) bonus on damage and hull.

 

Back on topic: 

I had an experience when I asked one of really good players how is possible that he is not in squad and he always get in PvP game with same four other players on same side that all have win loss ratio more then 1.6. (Two of them >+2.5)

All players were Russian.

 

The answer was we have the way.

 

I  know that many here will not belive this. But that is exactly what happened.

 

Also for record I do belive that MM is made so that it favorite certain players here.

Very interesting, I mean really very interesting…will not doubt what you’re saying here but wont agree either because if thats true I need to quit ASAP. I’m not agreeing for 1 simple reason, I choose not to but you’re not the only one saying this and I’ve started to have doubts…

Back to the question in hand, the mm system is horrid and while there are quite a few saying so I see no one from the devs side to post anything. That might mean no one really cares, but it also could mean that they silently agree but unable to say anything…

As for the said player’s win streak, which I’d love to know how is that even possible, I’d prefer their own input. Since the forum is where players talk, I’d like to learn how to do that too despite the fact that I’m not a “gifted” player.

[3487991]

2 hours ago, ComWittman said:

Even that can give a 178 win streak ! Regardless, I’d like to see the recipe from the chef it self.

Probably he made them at a time, when some other gamemode counted in the same stat. Wouldn’t be the first time the devs introduced such accidents. - OFC this is speculation, i do not know the facts.

Maybe Michael will reveal his recipe 

 

[3487991]

 

4 hours ago, Tillowaty said:

Artista.

Glad to see, ur not dead!

Dilli, politics need you, look at the strange growth we develpoed! O_=

[6682534]

6 minutes ago, Oregyen said:

 

Glad to see, ur not dead!

Dilli, politics need you, look at the strange growth we develpoed! O_=

Not yet, I guess.

What politics?

[3487991]

5 minutes ago, Tillowaty said:

What politics?

 

[39930487]

12 hours ago, niripas said:

As you can see on http://ts2.scorpclub.ru/api/v1/userinfo.php?nickname=Wittman …

could you explain what the abbreviations stand for? especially what is the + for?

 

K/D    
KDA    
WinRate    
W/L    
K/D+    
KDA+    
WinRate+    
W/L+    
gamePlayed+

 

 

[3121479]

I want to vote no, because most people think that MM is all in all solution to “balanced” games, which it is not, and for the most part, MM doing its job good enough. I highly recommend to everyone who thinks MM is the major cause of one-sided matches, go to a custom battle, make a team battle with 12v12 bots, and just observe without interfering, do that for multiple matches in a row and see how those games end up, and those are the closest to perfectly balanced games as it gets skills wise since all of the bots share same difficulty AI. Even if MM throws in most “skillfully equal” (what does it even mean?) players together, there will be plenty of one-sided games.

 

There is no blueprint to win, but there are ways to have a higher chance of winning than losing, regardless of time zone you play in, and on a countrary to classic “he playes in american time zone”, I find that on average there are more easy games during Ru times than durign NA, simply due to a population difference, in Ru, even though there is a higher head count of better players, there are overall more players, so concentration of good to bad is usually in a favor of good players, plus there are plenty of really good Russian players playing during NA times, and even though that is NA prime time, we are still playing on Ru and EU servers, having on avergae higher ping facing them.

 

If I to chose one general behavior to increase winning chances, I’d say go for High Kills, for awhile that is one of the “easier” and reliable ways to increase own winning chances, focus on that, and learn other influential decisions and behaviors later, with experience. 

It is easy to recommend “just make more kills”, but it is not as easy, even if you take something, according to forum most OP at the moment, it does not mean you will do good or win more, you still have to execute it, and pilot abilities do play a big role in that.

To prepare for “make lots of kills” gameplay, or for always do lot’s of dmg and help to make lots of kills for your team, one has to recognize different generic situations that will come his way in his bracket, in general, you can split them into 3 groups

• Heavy enemy team

• Light team

• Little bit of everything

 

Of course, all of that will be multiplied in various situations by factors of

• map size

• game mode

• team compositions

• enemy dominant fire ranges and capabilities

• Enemy “elite” pilots and their strengths and what they actually flying

 

And so on and so forth, the more one plays, the more familiar his gut feeling becomes with combinations of those, and obviously there is no way to encapsulate a discussion about everything in the same time in a single thread, so I highly recommend to drill them down to basic and try to look at those individually, step by step.

 So to maximize your influence you have to have quickly recognized the situation and what tools are better suited to that, you have 4 slots for ships, make sure to come prepared. 

Yet having a good game plan is not enough, and you still need an execution ironed out, For example, if you are building and planning on doing mid-range Empire DPS fighter, don’t try and mindlessly dive in close ranges in to swarms of enemies, or you have some gauss tackler to ruin the game of interceptors, dont waste hal;f the game trying to tickle a desstroyer or a guard, prioritise targets accordign to your strenghts, avoid figting enemies who are your weaknesses, and if you do that well, you will start receiving messages on how you are always using some OP stuff, or how you are chickening out and not man up to fight (absolutely pointless battles), and those that message you such things, are absolute idiots. 

 

There are a lot of things, better player can and will share, but people do not ask questions, people come with self-righteous believe that they did everything perfectly all the time and it is always somebody else’s fault. As long as one is aware of his own shortcomings, and the fact that there is always room for improvement, one will get better, but that is just a common sense, that quite a few people need.

[2165807]

8 hours ago, avarshina said:

could you explain what the abbreviations stand for? especially what is the + for?

 

K/D    
KDA    
WinRate    
W/L    
K/D+    
KDA+    
WinRate+    
W/L+    
gamePlayed+

 

 

The + stuff is your stats of the day.

K/D is Kills per Death

KDA is Kills + Assists per Death (KA/D)

WinRate is Won battles / Total Battles

W/L is Wins per Losses, so what is also shown in gamePlayed+ is the amount of battles you have flown this day.

[37508612]

On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 4:59 AM, xKostyan said:

I want to vote no, because most people think that MM is all in all solution to “balanced” games, which it is not, and for the most part, MM doing its job good enough. I highly recommend to everyone who thinks MM is the major cause of one-sided matches, go to a custom battle, make a team battle with 12v12 bots, and just observe without interfering, do that for multiple matches in a row and see how those games end up, and those are the closest to perfectly balanced games as it gets skills wise since all of the bots share same difficulty AI. Even if MM throws in most “skillfully equal” (what does it even mean?) players together, there will be plenty of one-sided games.

 

There is no blueprint to win, but there are ways to have a higher chance of winning than losing, regardless of time zone you play in, and on a countrary to classic “he playes in american time zone”, I find that on average there are more easy games during Ru times than durign NA, simply due to a population difference, in Ru, even though there is a higher head count of better players, there are overall more players, so concentration of good to bad is usually in a favor of good players, plus there are plenty of really good Russian players playing during NA times, and even though that is NA prime time, we are still playing on Ru and EU servers, having on avergae higher ping facing them.

 

If I to chose one general behavior to increase winning chances, I’d say go for High Kills, for awhile that is one of the “easier” and reliable ways to increase own winning chances, focus on that, and learn other influential decisions and behaviors later, with experience. 

It is easy to recommend “just make more kills”, but it is not as easy, even if you take something, according to forum most OP at the moment, it does not mean you will do good or win more, you still have to execute it, and pilot abilities do play a big role in that.

To prepare for “make lots of kills” gameplay, or for always do lot’s of dmg and help to make lots of kills for your team, one has to recognize different generic situations that will come his way in his bracket, in general, you can split them into 3 groups

• Heavy enemy team

• Light team

• Little bit of everything

 

Of course, all of that will be multiplied in various situations by factors of

• map size

• game mode

• team compositions

• enemy dominant fire ranges and capabilities

• Enemy “elite” pilots and their strengths and what they actually flying

 

And so on and so forth, the more one plays, the more familiar his gut feeling becomes with combinations of those, and obviously there is no way to encapsulate a discussion about everything in the same time in a single thread, so I highly recommend to drill them down to basic and try to look at those individually, step by step.

 So to maximize your influence you have to have quickly recognized the situation and what tools are better suited to that, you have 4 slots for ships, make sure to come prepared. 

Yet having a good game plan is not enough, and you still need an execution ironed out, For example, if you are building and planning on doing mid-range Empire DPS fighter, don’t try and mindlessly dive in close ranges in to swarms of enemies, or you have some gauss tackler to ruin the game of interceptors, dont waste hal;f the game trying to tickle a desstroyer or a guard, prioritise targets accordign to your strenghts, avoid figting enemies who are your weaknesses, and if you do that well, you will start receiving messages on how you are always using some OP stuff, or how you are chickening out and not man up to fight (absolutely pointless battles), and those that message you such things, are absolute idiots. 

 

There are a lot of things, better player can and will share, but people do not ask questions, people come with self-righteous believe that they did everything perfectly all the time and it is always somebody else’s fault. As long as one is aware of his own shortcomings, and the fact that there is always room for improvement, one will get better, but that is just a common sense, that quite a few people need.

I see what you mean and I see a lot of valid points, however,

Bad mm means to me 1st joining constantly the losing team and when we are talking losing I mean heavily losing at a one sided game and nearly at the end of the round. In other words, just join to get credited for a loss. No idea whether this means “balance” in the sence of - you won 2 rounds now its time for you to lose ! That in my mind is NOT acceptable. 2nd, we cannot opt out from joining ongoing games, one of the results is what I already said. As if its not enough we cant choose team, game mode [domination beacons etc] or map, we only get 1 go here and whatever the map rotation/game mode etc wants us to join we can only do just that.

I see that we cant have many options and that is due to low player count, instead off denying that would be better to work on it. We might have a chance in improving things, nothing positive comes out of denial.

When the most skilled player will join the losing team, especially at the end,  they have very little to none chances to change the outcome. The time wont be enough, 1 player can’t be at all vidal spots of the map and regardless how many oposite team players he/she will down, the overhelming winning team will swarm that player and thats how it is. I have the feeling some are favored by the mm, perhaps they get to be matched with skilled players and/or with the winning team or join a round at an advantageous time/point. What I have seen so far brings me to that conclusion and until I’m proven otherwise I’ll stick to what I believe, because I’ve already seen it.

Despite the fact that your tips are fairly solid and can help however I also see that are not always, if not most of the times not applicable. I’ve played with you and against you few games, all ended with a win, a win with the team you have participated. You dont seem to have any issues with the mm nor with how this mm places you when playing, I also see a win streak of 178 wins and in all honesty I cant, I just can comprehend.

Not claiming you’re not a skilled player, but if a skilled player gets favored by the mm then that player has absolutely no issues with THAT mm.

[39930487]

2 hours ago, ComWittman said:

I see what you mean and I see a lot of valid points, however,…

Something makes you bitter, not only a bit but a bit more, so you started to think. Now - what do you think might help you? Can somebody help you? maybe its the internal logic of “xxxx happens” plus some rare occasions when test-players, dev-players, or GMs or whatever seem to lever out that (supposedly complicated) mm mechanic altogether for some battles of their own, in where they always seem to play together. We do not know if its sheer happenstance, temporarily misuse of GM/dev privileges or simply fixing the group of high echelon players to a very specific game-server (per ip or whatever)  and hitting the start button at the same time - they even may have a good reason for doing so - or just for fun (because they and their few buddies can). 

 

Now what about your bitterness? Who could help? You? And what about loosing in this game a bit too much, or, having the impression being raw meat for nearly all other players? Yesterday you won (in short) 6 out of 10 games, stats say. We would know from that, that you had a decent build of ship(s), played at right time and contributed to the obectives of your side! But the logic is, that at least one (assumed) player won only 4 out these 10 game I spoke about (idealized), and he or she has not shown up here to complain so far. Why?

 

Ok - some Tips for you, that helped me in time of crisis in SC :

• make experienced players your friends,
• invite them to your list-of-friend, or just set them on follow
• ask them about your ship and builds
• do pve events with them and
• try to help the even less lucky then you,
• for you already have above average skills