Rock, Paper, Frigate

Ships
21

Thats like saying all ships who have a Laser equipped can shoot lasers.

 

 

I have flown a frig, its actually on my 2nd slot. But I didn’t forget it can move, unlike you, who spawns and doesn’t even move at all. Or did you learn that now?

 

 

This thread isn’t about nerfing frigates, its about fighters. You repeatedly derail this thread, making it about frigates, which it is NOT.

 

I will quote the very first line of this thread to you, i know its hard to understand meaning when you’re all worked up:

 

 

 

 

PS: This is the second time i report you for insults, i hope the admins do something serious this time.

Dude your entire post is about how overpowered frigates are lols. And how fighters and inties are under powered. All I’ve been proving is that you have it backwords, Fighters and Inties are far more powerful ships then frigates because of their maneuverability, their crit and bonuses crit damage, and their specially disabling modules. Yea a frigate “Might” do more damage… but come on man really… 

 

A frigate will rarely if ever actually hit a decent pilot in a fighter or a Inty, so all that damage a frig can do means nothing. And if you don’t realize this then you shouldn’t be posting about Balance issues is all I’ve been trying to get across to you.

 

PS I hvant actually insulted you, Calling your statements moronic or implying you are ignorant are not insults. You should really look up the definitions. Ignorant simply means you just don’t know, and saying your statement is moronic, means that what you stated is moronic, NOT YOU. Seriously… I shouldn’t have to teach you comprehension skills also…

22

Frigs are for long/medium range. Only they have acc. coil module that makes long range possible with railgun/plasma  (but most ppl use lasers because it is a sure hitting weapon)

2 of 3 faction have a good long range damage skill.

Frigs have the best long range DD, have the most hull/shield, have the best support modules with ridiculously good repair skills (emphasis on plural), and you crying because you can’t kill everything in close combat? This is a team based game.

 

“After all these ships are supposed to be big , Powerful, and tough to kill without a team. Currently they are SORELY lacking in all of those aspects at higher tiers.”

from your other topic…

 

A frigate will rarely if ever actually hit a decent pilot in a fighter or a Inty, so all that damage a frig can do means nothing. And if you don’t realize this then you shouldn’t be posting about Balance issues is all I’ve been trying to get across to you.

23

Frigs are for long/medium range. Only they have acc. coil module that makes long range possible with railgun/plasma  (but most ppl use lasers because it is a sure hitting weapon)

2 of 3 faction have a good long range damage skill.

Frigs have the best long range DD, have the most hull/shield, have the best support modules with ridiculously good repair skills (emphasis on plural), and you crying because you can’t kill everything in close combat? This is a team based game.

 

“After all these ships are supposed to be big , Powerful, and tough to kill without a team. Currently they are SORELY lacking in all of those aspects at higher tiers.”

from your other topic…

 

Yes it is a team game I agree, My complaint isn’t so much that a Fighter or Inty can kill a frig (They most definitely should be able to), its more that they can kill a fully geared and decently fit frig ( SOLO) in less time then it takes the disable module to wear off the frig if used on it. Especially if they also use Ion missiles. Giving them 2 disables which paralyze a frig for 5-10 seconds if staggard and used correctly. This being a team game and frigs being a large tanky like support ship I feel that a Solo Inty / fighter should have a HELL of a time killing a frig and it should take about 1-2 minuets minimum, not 5-10 seconds.

 

The changes I am suggesting are not to make the frig Overpowered, but are necessary to keep a “Single” fighter or inty with decent skill at bay long enough to have a chance to defend yourself against it without dieing in the first 5-10 seconds of combat after they stagger their disable stuff.

24

The changes I am suggesting are not to make the frig Overpowered, but are necessary to keep a “Single” fighter or inty with decent skill at bay long enough to have a chance to defend yourself against it without dieing in the first 5-10 seconds of combat after they stagger their disable stuff.

Yes they are.

 

Fighters don’t have any stun ability (except the 2 sec rockets, which is so short, and frigs have anti-missile so…)

 

For so many post we, at last,  get to the root of your complain: You have problem with ceptors. Pls read this topic or even post there  :

http://forum.gaijinent.com/index.php?/topic/17516-stasis-generator/

25

Not to mention that there is an implant and a ship modules to decrease those effects.

26

Hi there.

I’m an inty pilot by trade and nature, Considering that I specifically go out of my way to kill frigates with (generally) subpar equipment and succeed, there’s a few misconceptions about it that I want to clear up.

 

Interceptors set up to kill Frigates in the quickest time possible lack in ability to dogfight other ships as easily.

   - Generally in T3 when I’m going to kill frigates, I take heavy plasma. It rips them apart much much faster than rapid, but I then lose the ability to take out enemy fighters or interceptors as easily.

   - I will deliberately use the most damaging missiles available to me to take you down as quickly as possible. This means that later in the match, unless I switch to another interceptor, I won’t be able to deal that massive alpha strike as easily. Prime example of this would be my T2 interceptor. Burning a minefield on a frigate usually means that it is dead. But I can only do it once per match.

   - I have already started firing at maximum range with my weapons to maximize the alpha strike.

   - CC is powerful, but interceptors require a target, energy and the initiative to succeed.

   - As an interceptor, I always attempt to strike when my target’s attention is occupied.

 

If you are flying alone, frigates will be taken out. It’s not like interceptors come out of nowhere either, or simply just barrel down your sights. There is a radar, situational awareness, but at the same time if you are seperated from your team, don’t expect to win without pulling out more than the other pilot.

 

The thing is that I am deliberately putting all of my effort and ship design into specifically killing frigates. Why should this careful planning and execution be met only with partial success half the time? By specializing into this, I am not going to be as adept at taking out other targets without the assistance of the rest of my team.

 

There are always exceptions to the norm and you can tell who is preparing against their natural counter and who does not.

 

 

As for the time to kill, no, I don’t agree on taking minute/s to kill a frigate solo. If that were the case, what’s the point of flying anything else because frigates would become so tanky that it would take a concentrated effort to take out this one guy. Honestly, at that point we’re changing everything about frigates, not just solo fighters or inties flanking an unaware frigate and punishing it for flying alone.

By increasing the tankyness of the frigates, you’re not just affecting the time that it takes one guy to take you out, but the time whole teams take to take you out, especially ones who make mistakes such as thoughtlessly charging into the enemy team with no backup, no pulsar and dies in a couple of seconds.

 

A minute in this game is a long time, and considering the firepower being put out at that point, it would be ridiculous. Of the things in this game, the time to kill a support frigate does not need to be increased.

27

@Kuat: I got the same issue with my frigate-hunter fighter. I do really bad in dogfights.

 

However back to topic… how do you guys run your fighters? 

28

I run my Federation fighter as a fast, single-target assault ship. I find a target, preferably already damaged, that’s vulnerable. Then I ride right up on its tail while cloaked, let the proximity decloak me, hit the enemy with a target painter and every ounce of firepower I have. If it’s something like a frigate, it dies every time. they can’t turn fast enough. Interceptors occasionally get away. Fighters almost never escape, but sometimes they can manage to turn around fast enough to kill me. The only necessary equipment is a target painter, but I like to fit the spread reduction passive too, in case my cloak expires too early and I have to start firing from range. If it’s a Fox I’m also fond of the Valkyrie System, which gives +10% damage at mark 1 and helps the entire team. 

 

Note that the above strategy works AMAZINGLY WELL on sniping frigates, especially Jericho torpedo launchers. They tend to get bad tunnel vision trying to hit those distant targets or guide their missile, and they don’t even react until shields and half of hull are gone. targets that are in the heat of battle are 1) likely moving and 2) more likely to have an ally able to kill you before you can finish the job.

29

I play tanky command fighters. Deimos II with the hull resi command mod or a Machete AE with the Aegis mod. Deimos II plays more passively, too slow to go flying around the map; great beacon/captain guard. Machete AE I play more aggressively. 

Note that the above strategy works AMAZINGLY WELL on sniping frigates, especially Jericho torpedo launchers. They tend to get bad tunnel vision trying to hit those distant targets or guide their missile, and they don’t even react until shields and half of hull are gone. targets that are in the heat of battle are 1) likely moving and 2) more likely to have an ally able to kill you before you can finish the job.

Sometimes it’s tunnel vision, sometimes it’s because if they prematurely explode their torp they will friendly fire. They need a way to dud the torp as well as trigger it.

30

When it comes to roles in this game, unlike other MMO’s I see the buffer, debuffer, and the combat ship. You can pretty much fit a fighter like any other class in terms of survivability and damage output. I was thinking of getting myself a jerico fighter and push resists on it and give it high shield regain to make it more survivable.

31

The most success I’ve had with fighters was with my T1 Lynx-M. It has the best maneuverability out of all the Federation fighters (no idea why) and the longest cloak duration as it is an Armada ship. I applied a T1MIII Shield Booster, a T1M2Mil Hull Polarizer, a T1MIII Collision Comp module, and TIM2Mil Assault Lasers.

 

I’ve played several matches at T2 level with that ship, and I never had a complaint. I could buff my friends, avoid a decent amount of fire, and cloak up if things got too hot. The only problem that has kept me from flying it lately is that the reward bonus for it is garbage. +12 I think.

 

So I upgraded to the T2 Fox-M thinking that it would be even better with 2 passive slots and such. WRONG! Somehow the Fox-M feels bigger and easier to hit. I tried applying not one, but two T2MIII Collision Comps to try and make up for the sudden lack of maneuverability. Even with a +12 to roll, yaw, and pitch (not to mention my 30% bonus from the Empire implant) the thing still felt clunky. So I figured I’d stop trying to make it fly like an interceptor and instead make it into a tank. I got a T2MIIMil Thermal Shield mod, T2MIIMil Galvanized Armor mod, etc. I tried to hunt frigates with it, only to find that most frigates could turn faster than I could straif. The only reason I still enter battle with it is because it gives me a +80 to after-mission rewards.

 

In short, I absolutely loved the Lynx. It had a good blend of maneuverability, firepower, and speed. Every other Federation fighter I’ve examined shares the stats of the Fox. :fed014:

 

So lately I’ve given up on my fighters and have been flying a T2 Alligator-M because it has the most armor of all the Federation frigates, and I can load it up with a nanobot cloud, mass shield distributer, and an inertia inhibitor and actually help my team.

 

I would love it if fighters had a better defined role. And you are absolutely right about the role of Tackler being completely useless. It’s more effective to get an ECM interceptor and either ECM or Stasis opponents.

 

Fighters need to be able to be configured for bombing runs, with multiple torpedo bays and buffs to missile damage. Currently Command works fine, for escorting captains or frigates, though a maneuverability buff wouldn’t hurt. Tackler needs to go away and be replaced with something useful, like “Bomber”. :fed002: Gunships need to have a primary weapons buff and get some active modules that don’t suck.

 

/End wall’o’text

32

Maybe it’s because I don’t play competitive eSports or belong to a corporation where I’m expected to be performing at peak, but I honestly don’t care if (IF) Fighters are a little underpowered. I just find them fun to fly, and I succeed often enough against your average pug player that I enjoy my time in them.

33

Maybe it’s because I don’t play competitive eSports or belong to a corporation where I’m expected to be performing at peak, but I honestly don’t care if (IF) Fighters are a little underpowered. I just find them fun to fly, and I succeed often enough against your average pug player that I enjoy my time in them.

 

All ships have their uses, atleast in T2 anyway, might not be so at T3+ where Frigates dominate everything.

34

Fighters have two distinct role advantages:

 

  1. Command links

  2. Targetted Debuffing

 

In the first case, no other ship type can apply the Aegis, Coating Polarizer and Valkyrie buffs to allies

 

In the second case, no other ship can apply the Target Painter and Engine Suppressor debuffs on enemies. While the Frigate can use the Mass Propulsion Inhibitor it is a short ranged aura.

 

Fighters excel at killing bomb carriers, and with correct positioning can weave in and out of the field of battle killing and focusing single targets (such as frigates). The Federation fighter has the distinct advantage of being able to cloak and thus has a  disengagement advantage.

 

As a frontline “fighter”, the Empire and Jericho fighters particularly shine, more so with the Empire’s hull tanking capability. When it comes to maintaining field presence in games such as Beacon Hunts, a combination of fighters and frigates (both deployed by Warp Gate) holds the field much better than a mobile interceptor/frigate force.

35

Some of you are looking at the problem from the wrong angle.

 

A fighter , like an intercepto, wasn’t and isn’t meant to work alone, its strenght lies in numbers or working in pairs.

 

Just like frigates, a lonely frigate can only do so much before its overwhelmed and outgunned.

 

Fighters are good in pairs against ceptors, other fighters and frigates, one using target painters or propulsion inhibitors the other gunning down the target.

 

This applies while fighting ceptors and other fighters.

 

Fighting frigates is even easier… look at the Federation and Empire fighters, a good working pair can turn the targeting computer from a frigate down and both fighters can position themselves behind and down under the frigate’s belly… Empire overdrive and you got yourself a toasted frigate.

 

The reason why frigates dominate everything is simply because people tend to pick up the biggest ship available and go into battle with it.

 

Its only normal ( if not smart ) and it will always happen. Had we cruisers available then most people would sit their rear ends inside a cruiser.

 

The key is for the teams to be smart and work smart, 1 frigate with the backup of ceptors and fighters can achieve more then a frigate only team under the right conditions.

 

 

Imo if the new balancing is done right we will see a tad less frigates running around because smart people will be able to shut them down and out of the map.

36

On that note i have noticed the Weapon System Inhibitor for Interceptors (-% damage to target) but shouldn’t it be better fitted on a fighter? (if there could ever be one)

I would also like to see white noise jammer work for Jericho torpedo and Imperial Disintegrator, or even atleast a different version with AoE capabilities

37

Fighters have two distinct role advantages:

 

  1. Command links

  2. Targetted Debuffing

  1. As a fed fighter i only use valkyre, i don’ have enough hull/shield to waste energy regen to the other 2 modules. (i know, i’m selfish)

  2. Our debuffs are inferior to other ship types.

Slow < stasis (ceptor), slow aura (frig)

Resist debuff: good for called targe. In 1v1 achilles (coptor) is better. Moderate damage bonus for 1 target = a weaker valkyre version

White noise: It’s like ion beam lite.

 

Ceptors and frigs have  much better active modules. (but fighters have balanced damage - mobility )

38

Fighters can maintain those debuffs on target as long as they are in sight and are much more energy efficient.

 

To counter your first example, Stasis is mitigated by Proton Wall systems and Jericho Rank 2 implants making the Engine Suppresor much better in the long run. Slow =/= Stun. Sure you could stunlock with a squad of inties but that’s overusage of abilities on a single target.

39

Fighter debuffs? Those are pretty good actually so long as you stay close to your targets, the resist debuff is very effective against frigates and fighters who stack resists, and add up damage to those with beefy tank set ups. The engine inhibitor effects both after burners and regular speed and I believe it works as a percentage so its more effective the faster the target is. The white noise module is also effective, but more so against interceptors and fighters who have to lock on to use such debuffs on allies or yourself.

 

Fighters like the Prometheus 2 can boost the effects of the tackling modules as well, making them even more effective than putting them on any other fighter.