This game isn’t balanced on a system of counters though.
Just because one ship has the ability to look a target, decide it must die and make it happen with ease doesn’t mean that’s balanced by simply calling it a counter when the ships it’s doing this to don’t have the same relationship to anything else.
For example, why do destroyers get slapped with a huge penalty to respawn times that is absolutely crippling in objective based PvP if it’s a system of counters? In a game of rock paper scissors you can’t just slap a penalty on playing rock and say it’s still a balanced system.
Also, please lay out what counters what if it’s just a system of counters, because I’m pretty sure you can’t come up with a clear relationship of counters for every class of ship in the game.
Tacklers > Interceptors
Interceptors > Destroyers (at close range and only if destroyers don’t have destabilising field on Sirius , Tyrant spec module or Vigilant’s drone - in that case there is no clear winner)
Gunships > Engie Frigates, LR Frigates
Guards <> gunships (depends on guard build and gunship build)
Destroyers > Frigates (and if part of a strike group general suppression of enemy ships), specialised builds that are less effective against frigates but can defend themselves from fast moving targets exist
And so on…
Everything is described in the game manual located HERE.
Yea, gravitational lens can contest a beacon in a single shot, that’s true. But doesn’t help you one bit if your team isn’t there to flip it, and with it’s cooldown it’s also only going to be available on every second beacon.
Also that doesn’t change the fact that if your own team doesn’t help you out you’re not going to get anything done.
If the Destab had a shorter cooldown, something like the photon it would be a fantastic module, but it’s hard to justify it in the current state of the game. It’s not a full defense against interceptors, it just allows you to actually kill them if you catch them on approach instead of having them run off, pop a few heals and come right back at you. Thing is, since their respawn is quick and their ships are quick they still come right back at you anyways if they want you dead. If they actually get on you the Destab won’t save you. If they have 14-1 implanted the module is completely pointless if you fire it before their shield is down, and their shield won’t be down before all your modules are toast if they are on you. The Destab is so weak against everything else that it needs a much shorter cooldown to be a good module. If you could just use it like you use the photon, OK, it would be a little bit of bonus DPS, that’s always nice. But with a 35 second cooldown there is no module you can give up for a maybe kind of chance to kill a few interceptors on approach that isn’t more important.
Destroyers are not a straight counter to frigates. It’s a pretty even fight with a frigate, I’ll agree to that, but I played Engineer for a hundred hours before I ever got my destroyers, and I wasn’t afraid of destroyers. I certainly didn’t feel like they could cheese me to death so easily that I had to spend time complaining about it on the forums. In my destroyer I consider long range frigates to be one of my strongest enemies, not something I counter. I mean sure, if I can get in range of one I destroy it in seconds, but it happens way too often that one of these things is sitting in open space above the map and the one time I really need an interceptor on my team to go kill a guy nobody can be bothered.
Gunships with weapon jamming missiles are also a hard counter to destroyers. You get to just watch as they kill you, since you’re not fast enough to run or dodge or anything.
Repelling Beam, Blaster Turret, even Pyro Emitter, Warp Reflector/Beam Destructor, Meson cannon and most of all: paying attention to enemy ship’s movements will get rid of overly confident Interceptors.
Destroyers equipped with the above mentioned stuff are mostly the most dangerous ones to approach with my beloved wakiwaki r.
It’s not a full defense against interceptors, it just allows you to actually kill them if you catch them on approach instead of having them run off
Like a full defence in any kind would be justified… that is the most broken thing i have ever heared
And it almost is… Any inteceptor hit by destabilisation field has the choice to either slow down and get ripped apart by your maingun, or die slowly to the insane damage this module provides. If the inteceptor was flying backwards while being hit, the effect can not be canceled
11 hours ago, Aetrion said:
If they have 14-1 implanted the module is completely pointless if you fire it before their shield is down
By far the most common crew slot for inteceptor of r 14 is 2, the one for invisibility + there is something called cooldown on r 14 implants
11 hours ago, Aetrion said:
since their respawn is quick and their ships are quick they still come right back at you anyways if they want you dead.
Respawn time of any ship/destroyer is around 1/6 plus they still have travel time to even get to you. You could say the same after dying in a destroyer.
Like a full defence in any kind would be justified… that is the most broken thing i have ever heared
And it almost is… Any inteceptor hit by destabilisation field has the choice to either slow down and get ripped apart by your maingun, or die slowly to the insane damage this module provides. If the inteceptor was flying backwards while being hit, the effect can not be canceled
I didn’t say a full defense is justified, I said the module has way too long of a cooldown to justify what it does. The damage it inflicts is not insane, it’s quite survivable even for interceptors, and basically harmless for everyone else. It just isn’t a great module as is, and the market price of its components bears this out. There is no other 17 destroyer module you can build for under 500 GS.
5 hours ago, Flash0914 said:
By far the most common crew slot for inteceptor of r 14 is 2, the one for invisibility + there is something called cooldown on r 14 implants
People who specialize in interceptors can easily have multiple interceptors with different crews.
There is also a hefty cooldown on the Destab.
5 hours ago, Flash0914 said:
Respawn time of any ship/destroyer is around 1/6 plus they still have travel time to even get to you. You could say the same after dying in a destroyer.
Except a destroyers respawn time is three times longer and it moves five times slower. How long it takes for someone to get back in the action does matter a huge amount in objective based PvP, and small ships can often be back from death just as fast as they can duck behind a rock and hit their heals.
I didn’t say a full defense is justified, I said the module has way too long of a cooldown to justify what it does. The damage it inflicts is not insane, it’s quite survivable even for interceptors, and basically harmless for everyone else. It just isn’t a great module as is, and the market price of its components bears this out. There is no other 17 destroyer module you can build for under 500 GS.
You literalyl complained that this module is bad because “it’s not a full defense agains interceptors”
15 hours ago, Aetrion said:
People who specialize in interceptors can easily have multiple interceptors with different crews.
There is also a hefty cooldown on the Destab.
So appearantly 30s equals 2 min now
15 hours ago, Aetrion said:
small ships can often be back from death just as fast as they can duck behind a rock and hit their heals.
Frigates can do that aswell. And it’s your fault, if you don’t finish an attacker off, they might come back eventually.
You literalyl complained that this module is bad because “it’s not a full defense agains interceptors”
Uhh no, I complained that a module that does absolutely nothing against everything that isn’t an interceptor isn’t even a sure thing against interceptors. I was making a case that it should do more to other ships, not that it should be OP against interceptors.
Uhh no, I complained that a module that does absolutely nothing against everything that isn’t an interceptor isn’t even a sure thing against interceptors. I was making a case that it should do more to other ships, not that it should be OP against interceptors.
Which is wrong by the way… There are also a lot of figher builds affected by this, that don’t have a large health pool and can’t afford to go slow. Even frigates take a considerable amount of damage or go to a speed where you have a photon emitter hit for free.
The only OP interceptor is Taikin with its stupidly high strafe acceleration and jumps. Otherwise they are easily countered by slowing module, even more that now every ship and their mother has some sort maneuver/roll block module.
The only OP interceptor is Taikin with its stupidly high strafe acceleration and jumps. Otherwise they are easily countered by slowing module, even more that now every ship and their mother has some sort maneuver/roll block module.
And Grey Falcon.
39 minutes ago, Rob40468 said:
Otherwise they are easily countered by slowing module, even more that now every ship and their mother has some sort maneuver/roll block module.
AB disable cannot counter strafe on Grey Falcon, but can disable most of accel of Taikin.
cool, can you show me how to fit it to reach one of these mobility stats?
i mean besides that i cant have the passive abilities that come with the ship, it could be a real alternative!
Close. I don’t know why people are trying to put 2 Antifriction spheres on Tai’kin. It simply doesn’t make much sense.
But you can get similar results on Grey Falcon:
My preferred build, though:
As you can see the only parameter that is weaker is the acceleration, and even with AB disabled it has higher speed and strafe speed than Tai’kin, not to mention rotation.
The problem with Interceptors is that they are disproportionately difficult to take out in a straight dogfight, because the game relies too heavily on hard-counter modules for combat resolution/success.
AB disable cannot counter strafe on Grey Falcon, but can disable most of accel of Taikin.
grey falcon hitbox is bigger.
taikin is affected more by IB because it comes from antifriction which needs afterburner to give the big bonus. But it has more options than falcon to escape (3 jumps, two cloaks)
interceptors are not a problem alone, the issue are the swarms. basically any swarm or clusterfk is an issue now that you get 12v12 games. for some unexplainable reason the enemy team is always super organized with healthy amount of wazgods, guards and general lineup while my team wander solo across the map and have sheit setups 
