Destroyer/Suppressor class

29 minutes ago, g4borg said:

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you think so?

true, the forums do have mostly a few people posting more regularly.

funny still, even then, it doesnt seem like they are always “d’accord”, far from it…

but overall, most of the people who are quite dedicated players do visit here. not everybody posts tho.

 

not even everybody who posts plays the game…

which brings me to…

 

I think you still could add some valuable insights from a perspective of not owning one aswell. i think its just important to add where one plays.

I do think, in the end, one can never know, how a subjective input might impact others.

true, some have made their mind up

but that’s their own loss.

 

 

3 hours! it has only been 3 hours yet!

anyway, you need a bit of controversy, probably.

as


 

To add my own view of Destros:

I think in the past, maps were too linear sometimes, with the choke points often being always the same in battles. You knew that rock you had to reach, or basicly what to do if the team tried another route, than the standard. Most battles were decided, once one team broke through the main choke, and managed to get enough kills on the enemy team, so they could simply not regroup. It often ended in basicly going straight for the enemy spawn, to prevent the enemy from reaching cover, if it was possible; main setups were focused on gunships, and different support ships were added mainly as they were needed, like a dedicated engineer or an ECM to lead the charge

This wasn’t the usual pub setup, but it was, what team setups “came down to”. There was a bit of variation, especially as some of the niche classes, like Tacklers, got more abilities, or better teams varied with things like double engineer, or even double command, to make it harder for the enemy to focus, or some nice diving guard or a covops

But usually, once you could simply run into the enemy, and kill half their force without losing much, you could apply that same pressure until the match was over. Usual defense strategies btw. by mostly unexperienced pub teams were switching to mass guards or mass LRF, in the hopes to hide or tank, since if your enemy wasnt ESB level with their gunships, you could turn the match with a frigball. Anyway, this tactic usually worked by leaving the engi somewhere in cover.

 

Where I saw some “addition” or even kind of a neccessity from destros to this was to allow the team to have this moving obstacle, also allowing for better flanking, and basicly removing the predictibility of said choke points. Used in this fashion, the destroyer becomes a moving base, that could mainly antagonize the enemy frigates from range. Not only could it be effective against the typical guard/frig ball, but it would also allow to attack from the flank instead of breaking directly through the middle of usual maps, and maybe change up gameplay.

However I did not see much change otherwise, but since then, most types of team vs. team play has been broken up into SCL or dreads, both gamemodes where cheese or simple killer tactics work best, while tournaments kinda only lived on because of the GS. Which is why I never really thought, that dessies destroyed the game, they were just not really adding much on the fronts where the game bled most, like removing squads; also Dessies mostly seem to have had been designed for the larger battles in this game, and the issues around those, but kinda unbalance smaller games.

 

Imho Dessies would work better on larger maps and might benefit from general gameplay changes. They could be e.g. spawn points, and i really had hoped for multicrew, like playing a destro with 2 players.

My personal opinion, that proximity damage for a dessie was a good addition, and has been a bit nerfed too much is already stated in the other thread.

 

 

 

 

WOW you summed it up in a nut shell … +10 GOOD JOB !!!

1 hour ago, ORCA1911 said:

Feel free to state your opinion, i believe you have an objective mind behind your statement (unless you prove me wrong lol ![:D](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/006j.png “:D”) ).

 

 

Honestly i try to avoid things like feedback if i have no real ground as basement.

 

If i would start to talk about dessies as enemies it would be more “against” dessies cus they simply have and should be the “superior” class due of the time and effort that was put into them (in terms of material farming that i have posted my personal feelings about in some other threads so that i don´t wanna restart this here) what should be reflected in their stats and their advantage. Anyhow a dessy isn´t immortal if the team would use focus fire on a dessy. No matter how many more life, dmg, resistence, etc. you have every ship goes down in seconds if focus fire is used.

 

The problem is just that players seem to “respect” the dessy pilots so that mostly just 2-3 players attack them active while the rest looks for “easier” targets what results in more possible dmg output for a dessy.

 

But this is just the one side of view and a reason why i normaly don´t like it to provide feedback or anything when i can´t/haven´t experienced the other side as well. And cus i currently haven´t that much time to play (espaiclly cus i can´t play since 1 1/2 month due of my move and (currently) limited datavolume until the technican was here) so that this “project” slowed down anyways in order to get at least an R8 dessy for gathering some experience that i could compare both sides of view and for adding any ideas/suggestions that i could contribute.

3 hours ago, Rob40468 said:

 

 

While destroyers are fairly powerful (mostly in good hands), the gtardu is superior to any destro weapon at current state it’s kinda sad, i liked the meson madness, blazing glory with a pint of “witness mee” lol

But taikin takes priority, like, really takes priority…

 

2 hours ago, g4borg said:

 

 

The old battles were sort of predictable due to the map and general behavior/playing patterns but with destroyers that stretched a bit. I would like a no-limit squadding (i know how radical it sounds) but to have that, one must truly balance out ships like the new premiums and ellydium ships by not letting them be a one man army and adding more people to such a thing in a squad form is a plain disaster aka kill squads which would be worse now if it would happen than it was before. A pair of clogs in a squad can destroy a game yet alone fresh unbalanced ships. Also maybe scaling the proximity damage on ranks would help ease the situation which isnt that big of a deal compared to the taikin but saying “at least its not like a taikin” wont solve the issue, so for instance, r8 gets the usual x1,5 damage, r11 x1,75 and r14 x2 because, well, they are the pinnacle of the game in terms of power overall.

 

2 hours ago, Vesperion said:

 

 

Well, you got the part with time and effort right, i do agree that people prefer easy targets=bigger score instead of key target=win. Even if you manage to build ships right, develop your own gameplay style and know all there is to know, there is always that simple thing called proper decision making that will get you a nice win or a miserable defeat lol.

For instance most of the time i win by plain abusing the human factor of every game, wrong decisions, losing objectives, unnecessary loss of team mates etc, “reading” and spotting the patterns is like half of a won game. Since i prefer the no-stress casual play most of the time i just play it for the general carnage like the majority so speaking of tactics and expecting them to happen in every random game just wont happen so we face that destro is op issue, key target/objective vs easy target/tasks.

 

Also if you want to, i can provide help on gathering the items you need for having one destroyer ship just for the sake of getting familiar with the class.

4 hours ago, Vesperion said:

should be the “superior” class due of the time and effort that was put into them

i find your views totally valid, except this sentence, tho. the effort put into dessies isn’t really validating it being stronger per se. Since this view of things seems to appear now more often (see patch thread), people should probably talk about this.

Even if everybody would get every ship and every module in the game for free, balance would be about how we use all that, and the game should work just the same.

I thought this is clear to everyone.

But you can’t employ 1:1 ratio other-ships:destroyers either in terms of tank, speed, firepower and the rest. Even the size is enormous in comparison. They are a nice addition to the game but if you see more than 4-5 of them in one game regardless of which team they belong to, it’s a plain mood-killer and instead of tactics, they run the game as if nobody is there (if none of the teams can focus fire anything). For me, same applies to most players massively picking lrfs/guards/commands/gunships/etc, if you see too many of the same then something is plain wrong with the current situation.

Horizons will solve all problems.

I think destroyers are too durable, not enough effective at long range combat, and disproportionally powerful against frigates. Also, Federation’s destroyers are still way too mobile. G’Thar’Du and Vacuum Resonance Laser are much better than all the other guns available to them, and some active modules like Gravitational Lens and Destabilizing Field are highly questionable overall.

 

-Reduce hull durability by 40 - 50%.

-Reduce damage taken from module destruction.

-Reduce close range damage modifier to 1.25.

-Reduce Static Barrier durability by 50% and make destroyers unable to shoot through them.

-Remove disabling effect duration multiplier.

-Change warp speed to the standard of 2000 m/s.

-Reduce target locking time.

-Increase main gun projectile speeds (except G’Thar’Du Cannon.)

-Increase main gun ranges slightly (except G’Thar’Du Cannon.)

-Add a minimum effective range to main guns. Damage should be reduced by 25% at a point blank range.

-Reduce Wormhole Generator range to between 2 or 3 km.

-Reduce Destabilizing Field damage by some.

-Reduce Photon Emitter’s residual effect duration by 50%.

-Increase Repelling Beam range to 4 km. Also increase its damage to destroyers.

-Reduce Pyro Emitter build up duration to 1 second.

-Reduce Gravitational Lens build up duration to 2 seconds, reduce active duration to 6 seconds, and make it do full self/team damage.

-Reduce Gravitational Lens reload time to about 30 seconds or so.

-Reduce reload times of all other active modules significantly (except Photon Emitter.)

1 hour ago, Vohvelielain said:

I think destroyers are too durable, not enough effective at long range combat, and disproportionally powerful against frigates. Also, Federation’s destroyers are still way too mobile. G’Thar’Du and Vacuum Resonance Laser are much better than all the other guns available to them, and some active modules like Gravitational Lens and Destabilizing Field are highly questionable overall.

 

-Reduce hull durability by 40 - 50%.

-Reduce damage taken from module destruction.

-Reduce close range damage modifier to 1.25.

-Reduce Static Barrier durability by 50% and make destroyers unable to shoot through them.

-Remove disabling effect duration multiplier.

-Change warp speed to the standard of 2000 m/s.

-Reduce target locking time.

-Increase main gun projectile speeds (except G’Thar’Du Cannon.)

-Increase main gun ranges slightly (except G’Thar’Du Cannon.)

-Add a minimum effective range to main guns. Damage should be reduced by 25% at a point blank range.

-Reduce Wormhole Generator range to between 2 or 3 km.

-Reduce Destabilizing Field damage by some.

-Reduce Photon Emitter’s residual effect duration by 50%.

-Increase Repelling Beam range to 4 km. Also increase its damage to destroyers.

-Reduce Pyro Emitter build up duration to 1 second.

-Reduce Gravitational Lens build up duration to 2 seconds, reduce active duration to 6 seconds, and make it do full self/team damage.

-Reduce Gravitational Lens reload time to about 30 seconds or so.

-Reduce reload times of all other active modules significantly (except Photon Emitter.)

Destroyers should have big hull, but they’re dealing significaly too much damage.

Wat? Dessy aren’t frigate, seriously what do think will happen? I’ll one shoot every dessy with a lrf  ![:015_2:](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/015_2.png “:015_2:”) 

3 hours ago, Vohvelielain said:

 

 

Gtardu trumps every other destro weapon and build, i can confirm that much. Laser is not that much of a problem unless you go critical on it but then its situational and thats a whole different story.

 

Hull may need o go down a bit but that wont help much, module/proximity/static shield intake damage needs tweaking at best but very little, the warp speed should be maybe 1k given the size and capabilities of the class, making them mobile in that way may not be the best thing, the weapons are okay and their stats but point blank as an expression even hints to max damage output so i disagree on that one. As for the active modules, the repelling beam is really bad and gravi lens just extremely annoying, at least much better than it was on release lol

1 hour ago, EndeavSTEEL said:

Wat? Dessy aren’t frigate, seriously what do think will happen? I’ll one shoot every dessy with a lrf  ![:015_2:](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/015_2.png “:015_2:”) 

Please do explain how you can make an LRF do over 300K damage with a single salvo?

 

As far as I can see it takes several crits from a positron Kraken to just get through a static shield, and by that time there will be another one.

23 hours ago, ORCA1911 said:

Also if you want to, i can provide help on gathering the items you need for having one destroyer ship just for the sake of getting familiar with the class.

 

As much as i appreciate the offer (even when it would give me the chance to get an R8 dessy way faster) the main issue for me isn´t farming the Neo/Bery ore (cus for some reason i still seem to get it faster by doing the “after battle search” then in OS) my main issue is still the mono farming, that (still?) is bound to tedious OS faction station missions + the SCL thingy that totaly not is my thing as well. The other recources come with farming for the Neo/Bery ore so that i guess it balances itself out at some point.

 

Then every then and when the 10mio box for some extra chances of the needed mats and (eventually) i might have all the stuff for the basic parts + the interiors but not the monos for doing the building stuff. Again i don´t want to bring this up again cus it´s my personal issue i have with dessies (or rather said with mono gathering)

 

But it´s also a reason why don´t really like it to write feedback about a thing i haven´t experienced for myself to compare it with the other classes properly in terms of power/modules/etc. In the end the onliest thing i really hate on dessies are the Black Hole Module while i find the others okayish (from the view of dessies beeing on the enemy side or even the ally side).

You can get all the needed parts, even monos farming pve maps like defcon or fs due to more loot spots and being faster IF you dont mind that, i prefer OS just because i can chit-chat with people, watch tv and stuff, lifts the grind weight off of me.

[@ORCA1911](< base_url >/index.php?/profile/254263-orca1911/) why you duplicated topic?

Oh Iove destroyer class. I’ve been having an absolute blast in my Invincible in PvE, it’s been great! Love the firepower, love the ship overall.

 

I also love to troll the AI with my stupidly high resistances, i have crystal hull, knetic and thermal resistances and I can take a stupid amount of damage without my solid shields there to protect me in those awkward positions.

 

The only con with destroyers is that they don’t have enough opponents with anti destroyer weapons.

Ok. While all these ideas are great and all, the destroyer class ship at level 8 are a useless, hopeless design and if this were an actual war, they would have been pulled just to save on resources and manpower bases.

 

  1. In a combat environment where everyone else has missiles, where in are the anti-missile defenses? Giving them bigger shields are just so much flash to hide the fact that they are a magnet for enemy missiles and are less able to withstand them than a frigate.

 

  1. Main guns are under powered or at least severely nerf’d after how many rounds of upgrades to the Aliens and the introduction of the Ellydium ships. And where are the torpedo tubes?

 

  1. The production costs are so high as to make them a toy more than a useful ship in the game. A level 8 ship costs around 2.5MCr, while a destroyer will cost you around 10-20MCr, a few million in loyalty vouchers and a few weeks in game to upgrade to where it isn’t one of the first casualties in the battle. 

 

  1. The steering is so bad as to be a bigger help to enemy gunners than to yours. With directional jets, we should be able to strafe, do vertical and generally move as the other ships in the game. To make these ships all pivot around a central point on all axes, not to mention make it nearly impossible to perform a turn and keep on a target? 

 

One sight I won’t soon forget was playing Co-op against the AI ships and watching a continuous stream of destroyers fall to the combined firepower of a few frigates and gunships in an 8 on 8 sized battle. 

 

While you can add your crystal armour and other shield and hull improvements, they are hopelessly under gunned for their role. Even with Resonating ammo with a level 4 cannon, against alien ships, it takes 20-30seconds to bring down a target’s shield or damage its hull with a sustained, accurate fire. A ship that is often a very small fraction of the volume of the destroyer, and will strip the destroyer’s shields and do significant damage to the hull.

 

The level 8 Destroyer design is basically a flying coffin in it’s current design. Time to retire it and try again. I’d rather take a frigate in so at least I can manoeuvre and lob some torpedoes back at the enemy ship(s).

5 hours ago, Dragolen said:

Ok. While all these ideas are great and all, the destroyer class ship at level 8 are a useless, hopeless design and if this were an actual war, they would have been pulled just to save on resources and manpower bases.

 

Destroyer no useless, actually we have to play with cover, and with a good skill and config you can have a good efficacity.

 

4. The steering is so bad as to be a bigger help to enemy gunners than to yours. With directional jets, we should be able to strafe, do vertical and generally move as the other ships in the game. To make these ships all pivot around a central point on all axes, not to mention make it nearly impossible to perform a turn and keep on a target? 

For a better piloting, i have change command (command classic is sh*t for me), and the destroyer can turn and keep on a target, (you need trainning, just that) I can actually doghtfight frigts with a procyon and give a good counter mobility on striker on me. (use the roll for turn faster in destro)

 

One sight I won’t soon forget was playing Co-op against the AI ships and watching a continuous stream of destroyers fall to the combined firepower of a few frigates and gunships in an 8 on 8 sized battle.  The IA destroyer are poor in co-op xD, it’s terrible.

 

While you can add your crystal armour and other shield and hull improvements, they are hopelessly under gunned for their role. Even with Resonating ammo with a level 4 cannon, against alien ships, it takes 20-30seconds to bring down a target’s shield or damage its hull with a sustained, accurate fire. A ship that is often a very small fraction of the volume of the destroyer, and will strip the destroyer’s shields and do significant damage to the hull.

Yhea!! you know now, the paper say: your destoyer is the best tanker and the best fire power, DON’T listen this sh*t, actually in PVP there is a lot of debuff, buff, my paper say on all my destroyers. you are big, so slower… But if you know that, use your mental, make strategy and look the gameplay of ennemy and prepare your attack, the destro rank 8 can’t tank longer in doghfight, to use strategy and range. The destroyer have a good fire power but a less accuracy, so, train you, with halo you can kill a small? no? well trainning, trainning… the player ennemy in gunship who oneshot you is better than you so don’t use your power as a Ace. (we have turret, pyro, boost shield of 145 point for 6 sec + static barrier who can stop debuff missile or debuff weapon).

 

3. The production costs are so high as to make them a toy more than a useful ship in the game. A level 8 ship costs around 2.5MCr, while a destroyer will cost you around 10-20MCr, a few million in loyalty vouchers and a few weeks in game to upgrade to where it isn’t one of the first casualties in the battle. 

I confirm, the destroyer is too expansive for everything I think ( but we have more good player^^), but the better it’s 45 sec of respawn… i love, my ennemy respawn 10 sec… yhea, don’t die destro, don’t die xD.

 

 

And my final, if you take the destroyer for the power and the tanke hahahaha ![:007_2:](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/007_2.png “:007_2:”) ![:p](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/004.png “:p”) yes tanker sometime in pve :). (the destroyer is hard now, but don’t cry, the player in gunship have a good skill too, it’s hard for your ennemy too).

 

If you need help, or just a mate i can invit you in group :).

Destroyers are very useful if used the right way, eases grinds in OS, more tactical options in pvp, easier pve wins. It’s not meant to facetank or pull off magic tricks but its a powerful asset in the right hands.

Destroyers are still pretty op.  ![:002j:](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/002j.png “:002j:”)

 

Spoiler

 

 

I’d still like to see upgrades in Missile bay weapons. There has been lots of awesome innovations in main weapons but nothing in missiles.

 

I would really love to see more specialized bogies, esp. against destroyers - not so much in raw dmg but in tactical warfare, too. Like sub-targets on destroyer to lock on to, anti Static shield, or massive emp-trops against dessys, etc…

 

I would love to have 2 missile slot bays for frigate class and destroyer class: 1st for smaller missiles, 2nd for torpedoes (so that no op stacking gets into here). Could be a gind-for 2nd spec module or sorts - !?!