GatoGrande

Low rank bonuses are Joke on players that use R15+

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As title say,

low rank ship bonuses are joke on players that use R15+ ships.

 

Where Spark can be one shooted from Nightingale with Inhibitor Crystal that can be used every 10 sec is real joke.

 

Team battle and Nightingale have highest score is JOKE on all of us that loved this game.

All team shooting Archelon and we needed like 2min to kill it and he didn't have engineer any close is absurd.

And than we have Cutter with Deconstructor as well....meh game is getting low and lower with this nice moves from developers.

 

The game become joke with this one tier and all bonuses for low rank ship.

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to tell something nice about game, but recently there is no material for that.

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The game is not per se in a bad state. But especially pvp would benefit massively from a few number tweaks here and there. The foundation of a fun game is absolutely there, but easy-to-resolve-issues like too strong rank buffs and superior prem ships (Stingray, etc.) or too short cooldowns (Taikin) enforce a very frustrating experience at times.

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This; http://prntscr.com/kgrjum

 

can be used by Tai'kin and Nightingale,

so tell me why does it need damage bonus on low rank,

why can be used every 10 sec and why does it slow all ships in front of it for 75 %.

 

Why do recons that can go 700m/s need so OP weapon and why do recons as fastest ships in game need to slow someone?

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26 minutes ago, Scar6 said:

The game is not per se in a bad state. But especially pvp would benefit massively from a few number tweaks here and there. The foundation of a fun game is absolutely there, but easy-to-resolve-issues like too strong rank buffs and superior prem ships (Stingray, etc.) or too short cooldowns (Taikin) enforce a very frustrating experience at times.

 

I believe you, the game is fine everything is perfectly balanced and is working as it should

 

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Of course, we can always check how new players with 19k played games and all ships are using those low-rank ships bonuses to develop ........

I don't know what since they have everything.

 

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How about rank bonuses be made to work in tandem with the "newbie buff" that new players get.

As in instead of all players anywhere having stats raised, just let players with the newbie buff get it. That way these absurd archelons will stop dominating finally.

 

 

I guarantee you that the archelon will overtake the borobulbos on release easily. Simply because of these awful rank bonuses.

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10 minutes ago, TheDarkRedFox said:

How about rank bonuses be made to work in tandem with the "newbie buff" that new players get.

As in instead of all players anywhere having stats raised, just let players with the newbie buff get it. That way these absurd archelons will stop dominating finally.

 

 

I guarantee you that the archelon will overtake the borobulbos on release easily. Simply because of these awful rank bonuses.

 

I made a suggestion in some other thread that after each 100 PvP games played new player should lose 10% of buff bonuses.

This way after 1000 PvP games played this anomaly bonuses will be gone.

 

But of course blind ones - devs should see this not just us players.

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9 hours ago, GatoGrande said:

The game become joke with this one tier and all bonuses for low rank ship.

There's nothing more to say about this. You won't see me in PvP anymore. It's always the same. 80% of Premium ships, Archelon, Blood Tormentor, Nightingale, Stingray, Cutter, rinse and repeat...

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1 hour ago, GatoGrande said:

 

I believe you, the game is fine everything is perfectly balanced and is working as it should

 

You need to read what I wrote. I meant that most mechanics work very well, rank buffs are not one of them. Neither is the Taikin or the state of premium ships.

Imagine the game without rank buffs and only standart ships.

 

It would mostly be well balanced.

 

Its a few distinct set of things that ruin pvp now. Its not the entire game.

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you are still beating the wrong horse.

 

altough, it would be better, to just normalize all ships like everybody would be playing same rank, and just add those stats to the existing ships.

the best thing they could have done for the game was to plan the whole game with a single arena concept, or a maximum of 3 tiers

and the rank/tier system has caused a lot of problems, which this new system tries to compensate for.

 

still none of your issues are directly related to it.

 

12 hours ago, GatoGrande said:

so tell me why does it need damage bonus on low rank,

afaik only main weapons get a damage bonus, did not know it was also on abilities?

the ability there does a lot of damage anyway. i agree it should not do ability bonuses, if it does, which i dont assume.

 

10 hours ago, Koromac said:

It's always the same. 80% of Premium ships, Archelon, Blood Tormentor, Nightingale, Stingray, Cutter, rinse and repeat...

how is that different to the past? while i use the stingray, i use none of those other ships in my setup. and i feel confident with my ships.

you act like it was ever different in pvp, as if cookie cutter fits did not dominate all the time.

 

not saying some ships dont need a bit adjustment, especially the archelon, since people seem not to get you should not shoot it with em. but on the other hand, how was it ever different, that ships slowly crystalized as more useful in the current meta, until they were finally nerfed... ?

 

i would say the crappy open space grind farm for modules and a lack of engineers maybe have more impact on the overall meta atm.

 

11 hours ago, GatoGrande said:

This way after 1000 PvP games played this anomaly bonuses will be gone.

11 hours ago, TheDarkRedFox said:

As in instead of all players anywhere having stats raised, just let players with the newbie buff get it. That way these absurd archelons will stop dominating finally.

how often do you have to hear, that the low rank bonuses are not directly for skill compensation?

it makes design wise absolutely no sense to think of it as a bonus for new players.

 

it only has a very needed secondary effect for new players, that old players don't go down tiers to farm them, since their ships get matched by skill based queues!

but directly, it makes no sense to think of it as if "new players should get them and old do not", quite the contrary.

 

the case for premium ships i agree on change. i would make each module (so even each of different ranks) available on one more ship, maybe even more. which means, all ships will get at least 2 more modules to choose from.

 

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1 hour ago, g4borg said:

 

Bla....bla...bla....

 

 

Funny, do you even play this game?

 

 

So you say that it is normal that R8 recon can one shot R15 gunship (remember this R 15 gunship needed twice as many synergy to be leveled up then some R8 ship not to mention leveling of all ship line until we got to R15) with full shields and hull and that R7 Guard can easy sustain 3min of fire from entire enemy team....

If this your way is so good why do people avoid PvP and over all we have less and less players after each smart move that devs make. 

 

All ship tree is wrong made for game way that we have now.

 

But since ship tree was made first I'm 100 % sure that this one tier and all shiny bonuses will ruin game. 

 

It would be better without any low level bonuses.

 

Archelon have 69K survivability why does it need bonuses?

 

 

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1 hour ago, GatoGrande said:

Funny, do you even play this game?

I play on and off, yes? You want to tell me, you “play” this game?
my blabla contained some stuff you might want to understand.

 

1 hour ago, GatoGrande said:

So you say that it is normal that R8 recon can one shot R15 gunship (remember this R 15 gunship needed twice as many synergy to be leveled up then some R8 ship not to mention leveling of all ship line until we got to R15) with full shields and hull and that R7 Guard can easy sustain 3min of fire from entire enemy team....

No, I say, the reason for the Archelon surviving is its modules (em damage heal), aswell as the R8 recon killing you is because of its modules.

and it could kill just as well any other ship, i dont think it's exclusive to a R15. That just is more useful for your agenda to display it like that.


Also, who the flying f*ck cares about amount of synergy needed to be leveled up? leveling up a ship is a very small, easy to finish task! especially in high tier, where your synergy bonus should easily finish a ship in a few games.
 

1 hour ago, GatoGrande said:

If this your way is so good why do people avoid PvP and over all we have less and less players after each smart move that devs make. 

people avoid this game, not pvp. 

 

"if your way is so good" - my way? i did not implement this. i just am a bit more open to why it was implemented, and understand the motives. and for a change, the motives of this one was good. i just told you, in the blabla you quoted, that i would have done it differently. i am hardly someone who does not criticize around here.

 

mwo started around the same time, with a much more niche product, and they got hardcore pvpers and casuals since years, with youtube channels, and whatnot. they nailed the single tier arena. it works.

 

while all ranked arena games that have no tier based metas suffer a lot. exceptions are games which have some historical evolution based tier play. because there it makes a bit of sense.

 

1 hour ago, GatoGrande said:

All ship tree is wrong made for game way that we have now.

you are basicly complaining about ships outside the ship tree, like nightinggale, alien ships, etc. and a few modules.

the whole game isn't made for those either

 

1 hour ago, GatoGrande said:

 

It would be better without any low level bonuses.

sure thing. must be that one feature that ruins it all. of course, in the past, it was like, no problems at all, and people didn't just leave because they were fed up, that the game issues did not get resolved, teamplay got reduced, new grind walls were introduced, new ships were introduced with way too much opness, rules for queues were constantly changed, OP weapons and ships were not nerfed for months, etc., that all had nothing to do with it, its that low rank bonus feature, of course.

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3 hours ago, GatoGrande said:

Funny, do you even play this game?

I could ask you the same...

The guy crying about tai'kin,

the ship that instantly dies when it hits any rock, wreck, etc. And if it doesn't die falls into a 2s stasis (on an 8k hp ship, with hardly any resistances)

the ship that has only two ways of dealing actual damage to targets, bigger than an inteceptor (inhibitor crystal and LV 5 Special module)

the ship that only comes out on top in bomb runs and beacon mode, due to it's sheer speed

 

Tai'kin is not a meta breaking killer, ffs, It's just the recon, that's best at a recons job...

(You are about a year late, to say tai'kin excels at everything and dominates pvp)

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3 hours ago, Flash0914 said:

 

Tai'kin is not a meta breaking killer, ffs, It's just the recon, that's best at a recons job...

(You are about a year late, to say tai'kin excels at everything and dominates pvp)

Tai'Kin is fine as it is. Sure, it can kill a Destroyer pretty quickly, but other examples are even worse. However, Waz'Got is not. She's got three recent nerfs that were not justifiable.

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2 hours ago, Koromac said:

Tai'Kin is fine as it is. Sure, it can kill a Destroyer pretty quickly, but other examples are even worse. However, Waz'Got is not. She's got three recent nerfs that were not justifiable.

Waz'got is still the best ship for keeping an ally untouchable... Not only is Patron defence systhem a 100% save from almost certain deaths 100% at a time, but at the same time a fully evolved Waz'got has the best defensive and sustain mechanisms of all frigates... Add a tracking healing beam, that can heal agile allies way faster than they can be shot down by the enemy... I think it is too strong.

 

Regarding the nerfs... i agree with you... those nerfs are not justified. Waz'got doesn't need to have it's agility, evolution points, etc nerfed, but rather those high end gadgets that give it such a huge advantage over it's engineer counterparts. (Including Green Mist, Battle Station, Emergency Repair Station, Patron System and WL-13 EL)

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35 minutes ago, Flash0914 said:

Waz'got is still the best ship for keeping an ally untouchable... Not only is Patron defence systhem a 100% save from almost certain deaths 100% at a time, but at the same time a fully evolved Waz'got has the best defensive and sustain mechanisms of all frigates... Add a tracking healing beam, that can heal agile allies way faster than they can be shot down by the enemy... I think it is too strong.

 

Regarding the nerfs... i agree with you... those nerfs are not justified. Waz'got doesn't need to have it's agility, evolution points, etc nerfed, but rather those high end gadgets that give it such a huge advantage over it's engineer counterparts. (Including Green Mist, Battle Station, Emergency Repair Station, Patron System and WL-13 EL)

Patron Defence does not guarantee you a 100% safety. ECM and certain debuffs can actually terminate the applied buff, as well as any direct lethal collisions.

Battle Station was the only worthy active module that was actually fine, now its durability is on the verge of becoming almost obsolete. Cloak detection is actually a bug.

As for the WL-13 EL Emitter, don't forget that this weapon heals twice as less effective as the Brokk does.

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1 hour ago, Koromac said:

Patron Defence does not guarantee you a 100% safety. ECM and certain debuffs can actually terminate the applied buff, as well as any direct lethal collisions.

Battle Station was the only worthy active module that was actually fine, now its durability is on the verge of becoming almost obsolete. Cloak detection is actually a bug.

As for the WL-13 EL Emitter, don't forget that this weapon heals twice as less effective as the Brokk does. 

But with a 100% hit rate...

You'd need to be pretty damn good to get a more than 50% hitrate on Brokks WL 13 emitter on any inteceptor/agile fighter, engaged and evading enemy fire

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16 hours ago, g4borg said:

sure thing. must be that one

feature that ruins it all.

 

Of course not.

 

It is not the ONLY ONE, but it is one of big ones in PvP.

Hot joining is next big one. I blame implementation of hot joining for lost of best game modes in PvP like Combat Recon and Cap all enemy beacons.... even if last one is still available at leagues.

I also blame hot joining for constant one-two sec game freeze. Even if Niri gave some solution on this it is in reality coding mistake that is easy solved if hot joining is removed. 

 

 

Than we have a lot of bigger and smaller mistakes that are made during past few years since realise of destroyers and implementation of hot joining in PvP.

 

Deconstructor, next one, module that can slow for 75% and reload every 10 sec on Tai'kin  even tacklers don't have such module and sole purpose of tackler ship class is to slow, ah yes Doomsday that can be used every 3 sec on Tai'kin. 

Ah yes someone said that Tai'kin have 6k survivability so it is funny how it can kill ship that have 30k survivability when it jump-crash at it.

Archelon with 65k-70 survivability that get all low rank bonuses....

 

Game made bad turn at point when destroyers came out and hot joining started. And since then many mistakes were made.

 

Even if new ships that we get now are better balanced then those that came out in past few years there are still severe mistakes made and most of them in favour of small ships not all but most.

Front blaster, Deconstructor, 

Just remember that modull on ECM DDos not so long ago,

also why does this new ECM need main modul that make it invisible and heal it? 

What do we have now? All interceptor classes can be invisible!?! Why is this needed for ship class that can easy go 500-700 and out run any other  ship classes.

Let's get back to Destroyers. Ship class that was not needed in PvP game because of to small maps that we have at realise ruined game for others and now all Destroyers are ruined to compensate that mistake.

Do I need to say something about Thar'ga reliese and immortality of it first 3-5 months? 

Same goes for Tai'kin and ship is still not well balanced even if some here say that it is. Yes it can be killed but much to hard if build well. 

 

THAN WE GOT MERGE TO ONE TIER BIGGEST MISTAKE IN MY EYES AND TO ENLARGE IT LOW RANK BONUSES WERE ADDED.

 

Sure some mistakes after that too,

Ny 18 energy module, focusing laser, now auto aiming drone on new Lrf....

 

 

 

Never the less I can understand that  mistakes can be made but what I can't understand is slow respond to repair them and ignorance and blindness to even see some of them. 

Do not forget that game have nice toll to get fast opinion from players called poll. 

 

 

You see all this is ruining game experience in my eyes when I play it and I point on this in hope that it will be made better.

 

 

Of course I have also some solutions how I would repair this mistakes but does anyone ask or care for them? Nope

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, GatoGrande said:

THAN WE GOT MERGE TO ONE TIER BIGGEST MISTAKE IN MY EYES AND TO ENLARGE IT LOW RANK BONUSES WERE ADDED.

  

I may agree with most of the points you mentioned, but IMO the single vest thing they did lately, it could have been implemented better but the mm on average is in my experience far more balanced.

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58 minutes ago, John161 said:

I may agree with most of the points you mentioned, but IMO the single vest thing they did lately, it could have been implemented better but the mm on average is in my experience far more balanced.

 

well from my experience MM is different from day to day.

Someday it is really working well and next day is complete crap.

 

So this MM is an enigma for me, all I can do is post screens when it is awfull like a few days ago where I was in a game with a player that has 5 PvP games in total or next game after that where detonation started two vs two and one player had just Waz'got R6 in slot. The game ended 3 vs 2 bombs delivered at the moment where three players hot joined on each side. So six players with 0 points.

So you don't know what is worse, to start a game where one player is level 1 or too hot join when the game is over.

 

 

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low rank bonuses are around a long time now.

there were a lot of bad things inbetween the introduction and now.

even the one tier solution came later.

 

it was a last good thing they did, that gave a lot of old pvpers hope, so we kept on playing for a while. but it turned sour, as everything else got worse.

 

however dont forget, when they tried to discourage squads, and limited it to two for example. it lost a lot of population. yes, some prefered no squads, but this could have been solved better.

or rank limitations that made it hard to just find a nice queue to play in.

 

you mention a few gamebreaking stuff. but there was a lot more.

 

you mention hotjoining implementation. but at first, it was a lot better. you had large games which could be hotjoined, but the game modes were not adjusted.

later on, they adjusted and fixed the broken game modes, by removing them or adding points, but they also lowered the amount of players needed for hotjoin, and introduced so many new models, that they had to change precaching and without an SSD you have joinlags.

 

so it was always fixing one thing, but introducing ten new things that were crap. and of course, if you work like that, you will not see improvement, and even revert good ideas.

 

the problems we had from tiers and ranks are gone now with the bonuses. there is no noobfarming, no t3 squadding, and theoretically, now you can even form squads with different ranks. so those old problems are solved, but new ones are introduced.

 

i would prefer a full rebalance, but i also prefer that someone do it, who has a clear pvp oriented competitive mindset, and not mix it with "ranking up" carrot pve mmorpg elements. even mmorpgs have pvp but they are wise enough to put that at the end.

 

introducing special abilities to ships, that are low rank, without a one tier solution, would be a waste for the game. why introduce a cool looking ship, that can do something unique, but only if its used in lower ranks. that totally destroys the concept of ranking up being progression. all these ideas are confusing each other. there is no clear concept.

 

at least that we can all agree on.

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16 minutes ago, g4borg said:

low rank bonuses are around a long time now.

there were a lot of bad things inbetween the introduction and now.

even the one tier solution came later.

 

it was a last good thing they did, that gave a lot of old pvpers hope, so we kept on playing for a while. but it turned sour, as everything else got worse.

 

however dont forget, when they tried to discourage squads, and limited it to two for example. it lost a lot of population. yes, some prefered no squads, but this could have been solved better.

or rank limitations that made it hard to just find a nice queue to play in.

 

you mention a few gamebreaking stuff. but there was a lot more.

 

you mention hotjoining implementation. but at first, it was a lot better. you had large games which could be hotjoined, but the game modes were not adjusted.

later on, they adjusted and fixed the broken game modes, by removing them or adding points, but they also lowered the amount of players needed for hotjoin, and introduced so many new models, that they had to change precaching and without an SSD you have joinlags.

 

so it was always fixing one thing, but introducing ten new things that were crap. and of course, if you work like that, you will not see improvement, and even revert good ideas.

 

the problems we had from tiers and ranks are gone now with the bonuses. there is no noobfarming, no t3 squadding, and theoretically, now you can even form squads with different ranks. so those old problems are solved, but new ones are introduced.

 

i would prefer a full rebalance, but i also prefer that someone do it, who has a clear pvp oriented competitive mindset, and not mix it with "ranking up" carrot pve mmorpg elements. even mmorpgs have pvp but they are wise enough to put that at the end.

 

introducing special abilities to ships, that are low rank, without a one tier solution, would be a waste for the game. why introduce a cool looking ship, that can do something unique, but only if its used in lower ranks. that totally destroys the concept of ranking up being progression. all these ideas are confusing each other. there is no clear concept.

 

at least that we can all agree on.

22

 

Do not forget that first explanation for bonuses that lower rank ships have was that new player will be protected and will not be farmed...

I see now that you as some others are saying that these low-rank bonuses allow us to also use lower rank ships and compensate what exactly?

 

let's compare a few ships;

 

R8   Nightingale; http://prntscr.com/khdnh4       and            R11 Swift Eagle http://prntscr.com/khdo2t

 

does R8 really need bonuses? 

 

 

you know, there is a simple solution for all these rank bonuses,

remove all numbers that are in ship tree that is showing us now level=rank of ships.

This way all ships will be of the same rank.

Make all ship have the same number of passive module slots ( where are Tai'kin in not OP advocates now? 11 passive module slots on that ship ),

and finally 

remove rank numbers behind modules and weapons.

 

The result of this will be all ships in one class (interceptors, fighters...) can use the same weapons and modules. 

 

This way all bonuses will be absolute.

Also grinding in game for leveling modules and weapons because of different ranks that we have now would be also reduced as benefit of this.

 

Solutions are here, people just need to see them. 

 

 

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