mutsami

Front blaster is breaking games.

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On 3/18/2018 at 4:23 PM, xKostyan said:

ship hitbox has nothing to do with aim assist.

this has been said btw. a lot by now, so this should not be too new information to anyone, aim assist pretty much works in 2d.

and even invisible markers can trigger

 

question that arose since i used it now a bit, and also used a lot of tackler in this mess is...

 

...does aim assist keep lock on cloak at least for a while?

 

i always knew it about camo... but even crazy manouvers after cloaking seems to keep the front blaster shots coming.
 

was this also why rotation keys and extreme rot builds were so hard to hit? the aim assist basicly screws u, if flying a curve offsets linear target leading prediction, in theory. or is it target-id based and not really a prediction based system - since the shots also follow a target if it displaces itself...? questions about questions...

 

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13 minutes ago, g4borg said:

..

...does aim assist keep lock on cloak at least for a while?

 

i always knew it about camo... but even crazy manouvers after cloaking seems to keep the front blaster shots coming.
 

was this also why rotation keys and extreme rot builds were so hard to hit? the aim assist basicly screws u, if flying a curve offsets linear target leading prediction, in theory. or is it target-id based and not really a prediction based system - since the shots also follow a target if it displaces itself...? questions about questions...

 

interesting, would this rotation key strategy (I saw in c. 90% of xlMaXlx video section) be aplicable for frigates? or only for smaller ships like fighters, interceptors?

asking because I use strafe but in open space I tried rotation while on target in case of alien - they have very nasty green kill-balls main weapon (Unidentified weapon)?

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6 hours ago, avarshina said:

interesting, would this rotation key strategy

there are no rotation keys anymore. they have been removed.

 

except on destroyer.

 

and no frigates never could abuse them, because they never had so much turning. the idea was to get hundreds of degrees of turning rate and rotate your ship like yoda fights with lightsabers.

 

 

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we have 3 axes :

  • 2 axes are controlled by mouse
  • 1 axis is controlled by roll keys 'q' and 'e'

do you mean free aim switch key?

 

I spoke of the roll keys, that xlMaXlx uses in attacks ..

 

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the amount of multi-kills you can get with that weapon is off the chart :mellow:

 

seriously I feel bad when I use it.

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19 hours ago, g4borg said:

this has been said btw. a lot by now, so this should not be too new information to anyone, aim assist pretty much works in 2d.

and even invisible markers can trigger

 

question that arose since i used it now a bit, and also used a lot of tackler in this mess is...

 

...does aim assist keep lock on cloak at least for a while?

 

i always knew it about camo... but even crazy manouvers after cloaking seems to keep the front blaster shots coming.
 

was this also why rotation keys and extreme rot builds were so hard to hit? the aim assist basicly screws u, if flying a curve offsets linear target leading prediction, in theory. or is it target-id based and not really a prediction based system - since the shots also follow a target if it displaces itself...? questions about questions...

 

Aim assist is just adjusting angle to snap to the lead marker. Nothing less, nothing more. When I started playing this game the very first thing I noted that the lead marker shows where that ship will be if it will continue to fly that vector and speed for the time your projectile needs to fly to that target (it's simplification of course, but approximation is pretty good). So if you do ANY non-linear movement in any axis (direction or speed wise) - you can screw the aim of any ship with aim-assist on. That's why the first lesson for the intie pilot is how to press Q+A or E+D simultaneously :). In case of the Front-Blaster - THIS:

image.png

 

was usually sufficient to avoid most of the incoming front-blaster projectiles in the games I played yesterday and two days ago. You need speed, strafe, rotation boosted and tackler is a bigger ship than this intie, but honestly I was mostly killed by zuz with Orelus + focusing laser than front-blaster abusers. Still - I lost any interest in random PvP as the current teams are 80-90% covert-opses and there is no tactic at all. 

I remember some time ago someone was complaining that the games are too static and he misses intie furballs - I hope that guy (I don't remember who was that, sorry) enjoys the game rn ;-) . 

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2 hours ago, niripas said:

Aim assist is just adjusting angle to snap to the lead marker. Nothing less, nothing more.

that's not the bigger question, since that is, as said, simply the 2d hud function, and is no mystery. you could model such a targeting with 1 hour of unity experience, and simply knowing the formula for solving the "flight to target", which is game programming 1.01

 

however, the question is how the lead marker is working in the code. simply because sometimes if you shoot an enemy, who teleports, your shot will follow said enemy even if its new position is in a completely different direction. it does not happen often, but it does. which could indicate - but doesnt really have to either, so its not proof - that the lead marker gives not a "position in space" simply calculated client side, but the "object id of the target" as argument to your shot, if you enter the mouse into the area of the leading marker.

it does change a little bit. while circular movement would work partly to avoid enemy fire, it would not be as effective, as with simple prediction of position

since just predicting the position would however also lead to network related inconsistencies, the solution to simply read the argument of a lead marker shot as "shooting at enemy x" instead of "shooting at predicted point y" might be the solution used.

i hope i could describe what i meant. it is a detail anyway, and i doubt anyone knows the answer without knowing the code.

 

note, it only comes up since the teleport effect, which however can be also explained by our turrets insta-rotating.

 

2 hours ago, niripas said:

was usually sufficient to avoid most of the incoming front-blaster projectiles in the games I played yesterday and two days ago.

it reaaaally depends on who is wielding that weapon, and how many of them do it, and the rest of the team composition.

believe me even your ungodly flying skills wont help you there.

i had several games where multiple covops with that weapon did not even dent my team, and we had only one fb co.

 

but truth be told, its usually a combination of ships that make it effective. coupled with a crowd controlling 8km orelus, energy neuting objects, and a taikin dancing in your backyard, its hard to even focus on a single co.

 

2 hours ago, niripas said:

I remember some time ago someone was complaining that the games are too static and he misses intie furballs - I hope that guy (I don't remember who was that, sorry) enjoys the game rn ;-) . 

i think that was a different kind of gameplay those people sought after, the good old dogfighting meta of t3 and mass intie fightings were usually endurance fights, where you chased each other across the map with the occasional dogfight circle, not "swoop kill you from behind" manouvers. i do not think such a person will be happy right now, no

but i doubt that comes back.

 

anyway, in essence, the FB is quite fun, if it would not be so broken. so it would be even a fun weapon, without the 50k damage in a sec

coupled with an easy escape through quantum defense.

 

14 hours ago, avarshina said:

I spoke of the roll keys, that xlMaXlx uses in attacks ..

no, the turn keys were as said, turn keys. you could bind them on your own, and they allowed you to turn your ship in yaw and pitch.

unfortunately it turned you with maximum turning speed instantly, unlike your roll key which turns the camera and your ship just adjusts to it, which lead to abusive behaviour, even if that behaviour only came about years later. together with the interceptors back then still having turrets being able to aim in any direction, it became a sport to turn in a spot and shoot at your enemy, with the smallest of ships, like the caltrop.

the keys were removed, and interceptors got forward facing guns because of this.

 

 

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@g4borg

 

 that hitting a enemy that just jumped is probably independent since you can disable that with the ping aware assistance (at least ping aware assistance and aim assistance are not the same option in game).

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24 minutes ago, g4borg said:

..

but truth be told, its usually a combination of ships that make it effective. coupled with a crowd controlling 8km orelus, energy neuting objects, and a taikin dancing in your backyard, its hard to even focus on a single co.

..

i think that was a different kind of gameplay those people sought after, the good old dogfighting meta of t3 and mass intie fightings were usually endurance fights, where you chased each other across the map with the occasional dogfight circle, not "swoop kill you from behind" manouvers. i do not think such a person will be happy right now, no

but i doubt that comes back.

..

agree:

* what makes me annoyed at the moment is that now every other normal beam weapon seems to slow my Wazgot / my engineer frigates -- not only the ones with slow effect but normal Beam canon for example. I asked around and vet players said it was a bug, supposedly..

* one shot from FB did 36k+ damage to my engineer i mean that's a lot and without any risk to the shooter

* all the beam weapon superiority from far away in slowing in combination with kill divers from behind hidden secret attack angles (both without risk to the attackers) makes prime time MSK (Moscow time zone) PvP getting to your nerves.

* there were some really good times last week in US prime time zone with lots of reasonable players not misusing the latest FB meta

* I think we should give ideas to the devs what to do to still sell some stuff while at the same time not hurting the game as a hole..

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7 minutes ago, John161 said:

 that hitting a enemy that just jumped is probably independent since you can disable that with the ping aware assistance (at least ping aware assistance and aim assistance are not the same option in game).

interesting: i thought both things did not have a negative effect only positive (facing different pings from ~50-400ms)

would you tell us a bit more how it works? has it more downside effects? I experience the behavior in open space when jumping per Warp Gate : the alien projectiles and Pirate's bullets still following me in warp-flight (found it curious but though that they simply too get warped with their target if in range of the Warp gate).

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The situation is clearly showing a lack of understanding about the effect of this weapon in general.

 

Have you seen a lot of Engineers that aren't Waz'Got with this weapon ingame? (Deconstructor is also a part of the problem).

 

The problems with this weapons are not only the Damages its dealing, it's also how it's impacting the playability of other ships, the Risk/Reward Value given by this weapon combined with other tools, on what ships it is available, what are the bonuses on these ships.

Compare it to the other Weapons available for these ships.

Compare it to all the new weapons that came in the Fleet Upgrade Patch and that are coming in next updates (Engineer/Recon Weapons). There is not a lot a MIRV/P.Dev/Plasma Minigun/Gordon Launcher/Breach Laser/Plasma Harpoon/ect compared to Front Blaster

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8 hours ago, niripas said:

80-90% covert-opses and there is no tactic at all. 

There has been no tactics for some time. Ever since aimbot tharga hive came out tactics went away, it’s now just get the most op stuff and win. Or he’ll evn a majority US based team on RU server is a loss.

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8 hours ago, Rakza said:

..

Have you seen a lot of Engineers that aren't Waz'Got with this weapon ingame? (Deconstructor is also a part of the problem).

..

@Rakza what engineer weapon do you speak about?

 

See the situation with Wazgot's [Waz'ghul],  an EM explosin weapon with slower RoF than Coil mortar, range is low, projectile speed is slow, hihger crit chance not making that of a plus and energy restoration, well not that of a goody o Wazzi, and the spread will make it not good firing into enemies with allys near by, so nobody uses it.. And why is [Th'ak'Len 17] not coming with GFU? :dntknw::facepalm:

 

Yes- Deconstructor is 2nd in infamous row ..

Although some of the new weapons really were nice -- in theory.

 

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6 hours ago, avarshina said:

@Rakza what engineer weapon do you speak about?

 

 

Yes- Deconstructor is 2nd in infamous row ..

Although some of the new weapons really were nice -- in theory.

 

I'm not talking about a weapon, I'm talking about an Entire Role, you know, the role shared by Empire and Federation repairing people and pooping drones around their ships :D

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1 hour ago, Rakza said:

I'm not talking about a weapon, I'm talking about an Entire Role, you know, the role shared by Empire and Federation repairing people and pooping drones around their ships :D

I think I understand what you mean and yes, even Nagas are rare now thanks to the... how to put it... special meta. The survivability of most standard engies just isn't enough to deal with the stupid high amount of DPS covies can output right now whereas waz has the benefit of the battle station and various forms of manoeuvrability and self defence (gravi-wave).

 

And as for your second point of front blaster and deconstructor being the most broken weapons to come from the overhauls... it is kinda depressing because covies were never out of the meta. They never fell behind in endurance or DPS and yet they got a boost to just that.

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3 minutes ago, TheDerpNukem said:

I think I understand what you mean and yes, even Nagas are rare now thanks to the... how to put it... special meta. The survivability of most standard engies just isn't enough to deal with the stupid high amount of DPS covies can output right now whereas waz has the benefit of the battle station and various forms of manoeuvrability and self defence (gravi-wave).

 

And as for your second point of front blaster and deconstructor being the most broken weapons to come from the overhauls... it is kinda depressing because covies were never out of the meta. They never fell behind in endurance or DPS and yet they got a boost to just that.

 

That's exactly what I was trying to point out, thank you !

 

Also :

26tw0f.jpg

We have ships rellying on positionning instead of Mobility

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I want to share my Wazgot build "Waltzing Mathilda" with you.

 

  1. Have fun with stasis-interceptors (strafe what is that?):007_2:!
  2. Have even more fun with straight-line-interceptors (man I can booom!) :007_2:!

 

Weapons, Modules, and Modifiers:

Spoiler

 

Weapon:

  • [Th'ak'Len 12]

 

Ammo:

  • [Iridium Slugs]

 

Missiles:

  • [Octopus 12]

 

Active modules:

  • [Protective sphere 14]
  • [Gravi-wave 14]
  • [Missile reload 14]
  • [Warp Gate 17]

 

Passive modules (modifiers):

  • Engine:
    • [Synthesis sphere 17]
    • [Teleportation sphere 17]
  • Capacitor:
    • [Iridium Heatsink 17]
    • [Acceleration Coils 17]
  • Shield:
    • [Adaptive Shield 17]
    • [Combat shield regenerator 17]
  • Hull:
    • [Galvanized Armor 17]
    • [Crystal Plates 17]
  • CPU:
    • [Predator's instinct 13]
    • [Engineering regenerator 14]

 

 

wazgoit build roundel.jpg

Wazzi crew implants.jpg

 

P.S.: I think key thingys are: [Synthesis sphere], [Combat shield generator] and [Missile reload] with the appropriate Crew implant settings..

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Well... Front Blaster made for other people a hard time I know & little to me to be honest.... but things made it easier for me to kill them alot :D

A little bit of evidence [I have more if you want ;)] why I get more kills (I still do even before the Front Blaster came) with my Anti CovOps engineer ? because everyone think that [hey! brokk engi or an engi.. easy to kill!] and at the end... he dies... alot actually every time an covops tries to come within the range of my weapon (Which is Vulcan at 3.6k).. BAM! R.I.P! :D

I'm have been doing nearly 2~3 roles during battles which is [Healing,Killing,Guarding Destroyers from CovOps due to x4 drones that are always available] ;) 

Know your enemy :D

 

Spoiler

screenshot-180319-225146.thumb.jpg.8cc05screenshot-180320-231910.thumb.jpg.22c95screenshot-180321-215026.thumb.jpg.2156fscreenshot-180323-000404.thumb.jpg.721c9screenshot-180323-011244.thumb.jpg.a1a5escreenshot-180323-014833.thumb.jpg.dd77bscreenshot-180323-192514.thumb.jpg.c9c58screenshot-180323-193531.thumb.jpg.f8f46

I'm not saying don't nerf Front Blaster.. what I am saying is it needs some nerf  + decrease the crit chance.

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Seeing how deconstructor is now more balanced by nerfing the secondary effect, I believe F.Blaster need that as well. Snapping, mobility bonus and range increase can stay, but 100% damage bonus reduced to lets say, 20-25% should make this gun comparable to Pulse Laser. Can someone do the math and check?

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Ship specific equipment was a mistake in the first place.

Role specific should have been the full extent of any restrictions.

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On 24. 3. 2018 at 1:42 AM, CommandosGrozny said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

screenshot-180319-225146.thumb.jpg.8cc05screenshot-180320-231910.thumb.jpg.22c95screenshot-180321-215026.thumb.jpg.2156fscreenshot-180323-000404.thumb.jpg.721c9screenshot-180323-011244.thumb.jpg.a1a5escreenshot-180323-014833.thumb.jpg.dd77bscreenshot-180323-192514.thumb.jpg.c9c58screenshot-180323-193531.thumb.jpg.f8f46

 

 

Is this joke?:dntknw:

Not single good player in enemy team.

I would like to get opponents like this as well.

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They nerfed it by 10% guys. So on full speed it deals like 20% less damage (I hope). Still strafe builds apply to this gun.

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7 hours ago, Rob40468 said:

They nerfed it by 10% guys. So on full speed it deals like 20% less damage (I hope). Still strafe builds apply to this gun.

high values of strafe disable the bonus dmg and range on the gun, it gets the bonus only by moving forward, even moving forward + high enough strafe value will disable bonus dmg.

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Hate to be negative but front blasters are still doing way too much damage after the patch. They're literally doing more damage than plasma arc from way farther away. 
I can't play any kind of frigate because someone will be playing a golden eagle with front blasters.
Sorry, it's very broken and needs a serious damage tone down. 10% wasn't enough.

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yes, too much damage , still

but it's a fun and inzteresting weapon for inty pilots.. that's 4 sure

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