TheShooter36

Destroyers state and what can be done

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Hello, i want to talk about destroyers and your opinions, would also make a poll but i am not too savvy with this forum's tools. Anyways. We all know Destroyers are:

- Overly nerfed
- Has "fake survivability"

- Dies faster than some fighters if not most

- Definitely dies faster than LRF s

- Has that weakbess aura bonkers that would solve %60 of problems if it was göne.

- Cannot achieve long range support/artillery/suppresive fire roles nor close range brawler roles.

- That missile slot nerf on top of everything as if every Ninja nerf wasnt enough.

- Ninja mobility nerf that happened some patches ago.

 

Take my own Sibyl for example. It has whopping 443k on paper and then i estimate some 70k extra survivability due to its regen and extra resists through multiphase shield. However, in actual battles, not even talking pvp battles here, it at most survives for 1 minutes. Single plasma arc strike on my ship does like 300k damage. While i was and am fine with plasma arc strikes making destroyers SEVERELY wounded, i do not agree with a LRF or an engineer, or even a Tackler YOLO tanking a properly built tank-role destroyer and killing it in 20 seconds. Either a Stingray or a Covops should be able to severely wound and make it %75 useless and practically making it out of battle for 1-2 minute basically, yes. However single LRF or engie shouldnt be able to LOLkill a Destroyer in 20-30 seconds. I have been on both sides of that bullcrap. It needs to go away.

Be assured i dont ask for a "destroyer-kills-all" thing. However right now Destroyers are the bottom of food chain totally and only counters eachother.

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Destroyers are so useless now, I have no idea why people even bother to use them anymore. 400k repair cost, 45 second respawn time, and less health than most inties. I have no idea what to suggest to fix the issue. At one point they were maybe op, they offered all these buffs to other ships to offset that. Now that has long since gone too far. At this point they are not even good for PVE any more. 

 

I totally agree with you man. My suggestion is to protest and not use the ships. 400k repair reason enough for me.

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The thing though, is that they WEREN'T OP. I played with them and against them since their inception and never did I see them as a huge threat because I knew how to fight them and what their limits were. Then as time went on, I saw nothing but nerf upon nerf upon nerf to them and now they are absolutely useless outside of PvE. And even in PvE they are at a great disadvantage because of their slowness and vulnerability to EVERYTHING.

And don't get me started on boss fights. If a boss enemy targets you, all you can do is sit there and let it kill you since there's nothing you can do to stop it or run away. Even wormhole is useless against this.

 

And on top of this, the devs make all the modules and items for it so rare that nobody can find them or even pay to get them, so they are 99% of the time stuck with stock items.

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16 minutes ago, TheDarkRedFox said:

And on top of this, the devs make all the modules and items for it so rare that nobody can find them or even pay to get them, so they are 99% of the time stuck with stock items.

 

This has been bugging me for a long time. The loot crates that has the drop never drops it. I have opened at least a hundred of the appropriate crates. The chance is so close to zero, it might as well be zero. Its surely less than 1% odds at this point. At least for me. Your mileage may vary. The few of these items that are for sale people want 5500 to 7,000 gs for.  That's a bit much for a piece of a piece of an item and you still got to level it up and pay out the nose in credits. 

 

PS: upvotes help devs decide. Vote on the post that matter. I put mine in.

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1 hour ago, TheShooter36 said:

 We all know Destroyers are:

- Overly nerfed
- Has "fake survivability"

- Dies faster than  

 

Be assured i dont ask for a "destroyer-kills-all" thing. However right now Destroyers are the bottom of food chain totally and only counters eachother.

 

Yes destroyers need big rework

 

1 hour ago, Karellen2 said:

, in pvp destroyers are nothing but a mere joke to...

 

 

Yes, indeed

 

30 minutes ago, DrDeath_ScD said:

people want 5500 to 7,000 gs for.  That's a bit much for a piece of a piece of an item and you still got to level it up and pay out the nose in credits. 

 

 

 

You say that those parts are rare and one sec later you complain that they are to expencive?

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+1, as long this dmg boost in close range is here they will be paper made.

 

this doesn't mean you can't do more than 10 kills with them if ur op and know da wae

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2 hours ago, TheShooter36 said:

Overly nerfed

no

try 1on1 with them if u have no shield

also teamwork is important if u drive a destroyer

 

2 hours ago, TheShooter36 said:

Dies faster than some fighters if not most

where is your shield?

u can live forever if there are no several player fire u at once

 

2 hours ago, TheShooter36 said:

Definitely dies faster than LRF s

no

lrf die like DHL

 

2 hours ago, TheShooter36 said:

Cannot achieve long range support/artillery/suppresive fire roles nor close range brawler roles.

no..have u drive it?

 

2 hours ago, TheShooter36 said:

Single plasma arc strike on my ship does like 300k damage

this thing * up everything..

deploy close weapon..

 

the real problem is nerf this?

 

2 hours ago, TheShooter36 said:

Either a Stingray or a Covops should be able to severely wound

if u see nuke then u should warp away..

 

2 hours ago, DrDeath_ScD said:

400k repair cost

haha

i will destroy them more..

i know why every destroyer try not to be killed now

 

2 hours ago, TheDarkRedFox said:

And on top of this, the devs make all the modules and items for it so rare that nobody can find them or even pay to get them, so they are 99% of the time stuck with stock items.

this is the real problem of every high lv things..

 

1 hour ago, DrDeath_ScD said:

 

This has been bugging me for a long time. The loot crates that has the drop never drops it. I have opened at least a hundred of the appropriate crates. The chance is so close to zero, it might as well be zero. Its surely less than 1% odds at this point. At least for me. Your mileage may vary. The few of these items that are for sale people want 5500 to 7,000 gs for.  That's a bit much for a piece of a piece of an item and you still got to level it up and pay out the nose in credits. 

 

PS: upvotes help devs decide. Vote on the post that matter. I put mine in.

the game need to earn $..

at least this game is much better than crossout

crossout have much more pay to win problem

in SC u can get lots of thing before paying..

 

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100% Agreed, destroyers are so useless in pvp it's not even funny.

 

Biggest issue I have right now is that the Federation destroyers are way more OP than the Empire destroyers as a fact. The fact that the fed destroyers get THREE repair drones AND 5 seconds for reloading vs. the Empires destroyers two and 15 seconds is utter garbage. Fed destroyers can beat Empire destroyers 24/7 since they can regen so much HP.

 

What I believe we need to see:
 

A. Either a big speed boost to destroyers OR a HALFing the DPS boost when below 750m.

B. Make primary guns NOT buildable, but purchasable only with credits. Seriously, I have no idea why two out of the three primary weapons are buildable only.

C. More modules! We need more modules for destroyers to make their gameplay more diverse.

D: Return ALL destroyers to their faction biased HP points. As an example, Antares has 55% more hull points than Shield points right now, so basically you always build it like an Empire destroyer when it comes to pure tank ability. And Jericho destroyers hull and shield points should be the same as all the other ships where the shield is a LOT bigger than the hull in terms of HP points.

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I can compare this game with one old other space game where destroyers were really hard to kill. 

 

We had there:

 

Scouts - something like interceptors. Two weapon slots.Max weapon range 600m.  Ship Speed 400-425

(fastes ships extra hard to hit them but they had no damage-used for recon)

 

Fighters- like here . 4-5 weapon slots. Max w.r 650m. Ship Speed 375

(Not so fast like scauts but more fire power-used to kill other fighters and bombers)

 

Bombers-kind of very havy fighter 2+2   weapon slots. Weapon range 650m +3500m for torpedos(guided with havy damage) . Ship speed 350- 375 (equiped with torpedos or anti matter cannon- used to kill bigger ships)

 

Gunboats and gunships- something like guard frigate here. 6 weapon slots. Weapon Range from 600m-2k.

Ship Speed 300-320. (So more hull but also much more fire power. Used to kill bombers and fighters)

 

Destroyers-like here 8-10 weapon slots. Speed 250. 8-12 weapon slots

(Masive hull masive shield. A lot of fire power.) Different weapons from mortar aka photon torpedo here to anti fighter weapons. Well balanced weapons. Anti fighter were fast but short range, anti bigger ships weapons had more range but lower speed.

 

What I'm trying to say here is that scauts and fighters couldn't even take shild down from Destroyers.

We needed bomber or other destroyer to take it down. Of course if fighter or scout were hit from destroyer it was like 99% insta kill.

But there was good balance. Small ships could always out run Destroyer. And destroyer could not shot 10k far with lasers. All weapons were projectil. We had lasers too but short laser projectiles not like here 20+ sec line laser burn from one end of map to other.

 

.....

Any way Destroyer was not easy to kill.

I can say playing this game that old game was realy good balanced.

Only problem was that it was RP game. And I had to chat before I could kill.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, TheDarkRedFox said:

 

And don't get me started on boss fights. If a boss enemy targets you, all you can do is sit there and let it kill you since there's nothing you can do to stop it or run away.

Spoiler

 

 

My boss was broken then...

 

2 hours ago, DrDeath_ScD said:

 

This has been bugging me for a long time. The loot crates that has the drop never drops it. I have opened at least a hundred of the appropriate crates. The chance is so close to zero, it might as well be zero. Its surely less than 1% odds at this point. At least for me. Your mileage may vary. The few of these items that are for sale people want 5500 to 7,000 gs for.  That's a bit much for a piece of a piece of an item and you still got to level it up and pay out the nose in credits. 

Not further than yesterday a friend of mine purchased full T4 and T5 Gravi Lense set for 3500 (together). People can ask even 20k, but going rate is much lower. Just my $0.02.

 

I won't take a side regarding those ships as I don't fly them (you can see on that video that I suck as a dessie driver). On Steam there was a thread few days ago that Dessies are OP and you don't need anything else to win every game. Maybe except Tharga and Taikin. 

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1 minute ago, niripas said:

 

My boss was broken then...

Pirate cruiser isn't a boss enemy.

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2 hours ago, niripas said:

Not further than yesterday a friend of mine purchased full T4 and T5 Gravi Lense set for 3500 (together). People can ask even 20k, but going rate is much lower. Just my $0.02.

Even then that is $10 for something that used to be free...

 

And also quick question: Why would you buy the T5 gravi lense when the T4 variant isn't much lower on stats and can be used on both R14 and R11 destroyers?

 

Legit curious because I personally don't see much of a use of upgrading a module to a higher rank variant.

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2 hours ago, TheDarkRedFox said:

Pirate cruiser isn't a boss enemy.

then which one is? Final boss in Ice Belt is even weaker. I still can survive few hits at Pirate Fort Raid in my Tyrant - but those shots are just singularity shots, so other ships are just exploding after 1 or 2 shots (IIRC it had 130k+ base damage).

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5 hours ago, TheShooter36 said:

However single LRF or engie shouldnt be able to LOLkill a Destroyer in 20-30 seconds. I have been on both sides of that bullcrap. It needs to go away.

2

 

5 hours ago, Karellen2 said:

My invincible died in 1s to a  fighter which lets face it, in pvp destroyers are nothing but a mere joke to...everything but another  destroyer 

2

I'd love to see those actually happen to good Destroyer players.

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1 hour ago, niripas said:

then which one is? Final boss in Ice Belt is even weaker. I still can survive few hits at Pirate Fort Raid in my Tyrant - but those shots are just singularity shots, so other ships are just exploding after 1 or 2 shots (IIRC it had 130k+ base damage).

The ice dread singularity boss and the pirate raid boss are excellent examples. One hit down the spine of the ship can knock out all your mods. Within the next few hits you are toast.

I manage to stay alive for a minute or two after he targets me just by doing loops at full speed and firing sideways. XD

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I haven't had issues with Ice Belt, I fly Antares though so maybe with slower destros it's more of a problem. idk.

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6 hours ago, HBZK100 said:

HALFing the DPS boost when below 750m

 

6 hours ago, GatoGrande said:

I can compare this game with one old other space game where destroyers were really hard to kill. 

 

We had there:

 

Scouts - something like interceptors. Two weapon slots.Max weapon range 600m.  Ship Speed 400-425

(fastes ships extra hard to hit them but they had no damage-used for recon)

 

Fighters- like here . 4-5 weapon slots. Max w.r 650m. Ship Speed 375

(Not so fast like scauts but more fire power-used to kill other fighters and bombers)

 

Bombers-kind of very havy fighter 2+2   weapon slots. Weapon range 650m +3500m for torpedos(guided with havy damage) . Ship speed 350- 375 (equiped with torpedos or anti matter cannon- used to kill bigger ships)

 

Gunboats and gunships- something like guard frigate here. 6 weapon slots. Weapon Range from 600m-2k.

Ship Speed 300-320. (So more hull but also much more fire power. Used to kill bombers and fighters)

 

Destroyers-like here 8-10 weapon slots. Speed 250. 8-12 weapon slots

(Masive hull masive shield. A lot of fire power.) Different weapons from mortar aka photon torpedo here to anti fighter weapons. Well balanced weapons. Anti fighter were fast but short range, anti bigger ships weapons had more range but lower speed.

 

What I'm trying to say here is that scauts and fighters couldn't even take shild down from Destroyers.

We needed bomber or other destroyer to take it down. Of course if fighter or scout were hit from destroyer it was like 99% insta kill.

But there was good balance. Small ships could always out run Destroyer. And destroyer could not shot 10k far with lasers. All weapons were projectil. We had lasers too but short laser projectiles not like here 20+ sec line laser burn from one end of map to other.

 

.....

Any way Destroyer was not easy to kill.

I can say playing this game that old game was realy good balanced.

Only problem was that it was RP game. And I had to chat before I could kill.

 

 

 

eve?

that's is a boring and wired game..

make the pc do all the shooting..

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2 hours ago, driversar said:

 

eve?

that's is a boring and wired game..

make the pc do all the shooting..

 

nope, it is 13 year old game, but it is still active. It is RP game.

You could actually mine ore-minerals with mining ship and then transport that with transport ship.

 

You see here you have some stories made by devs on forum that have no real in game sense here since it is just PvP - PvE  game with not-bad developed open space story, there were stories on forum that actually have in game sense also there was no station protection there in open, just simple rule that players with low rank should not be engaged unless they attack you first.

Also what was cool, we had zillion different fractions in RP game, like outcasts and then you have bounty hunters as well.

You had actual bounty board where you could post rewards for people that killed certain pirates and so on...

But that is RP game so you have to talk first and then shot...

 

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5 hours ago, TheDarkRedFox said:

The ice dread singularity boss and the pirate raid boss are excellent examples. One hit down the spine of the ship can knock out all your mods. Within the next few hits you are toast.

I manage to stay alive for a minute or two after he targets me just by doing loops at full speed and firing sideways. XD

This contradicts your previous statement :p Also if you can dodge the Ice Belt one, Pirate Ford Raid one can be dodged as well (I can kite him and wear him down in a Tyrant).

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SunnySweet i still play that 13 year old RP game and actually lead a faction called Crayter Republic there :)

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The problem with the current meta as I see it is that destroyers can only be OP or super nerfy, in specifically pvp match ups, simply because of how they operate and function.

 

If we had more ships designed for anti destroyer work like Gargoyle, plus make destroyers buffed again, that would help in pvp match ups. I'd also like to see ECMs get some buffs to their modules for destroyers only IF destroyers get buffed again.

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On 16/02/2018 at 2:38 AM, HBZK100 said:

If we had more ships designed for anti destroyer work like Gargoyle, plus make destroyers buffed again, that would help in pvp match ups. I'd also like to see ECMs get some buffs to their modules for destroyers only IF destroyers get buffed again.

We have too many antidestroyer weapons and modules right now as it is, let alone full ships.

A few modules and weapons off the top of my head that are most effective/only effective against Destroyers as is would be:

Deconstructor, MIRV launcher, Hindenburg supercharge, Anomaly Generator (I've never seen it aimed at anything but a dessie), Plasma Arc, Supernova Torpedo and Guided Termosphere.

 

Do we really need more bullcrap to deal with when we can't even fit our own ships for free?

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