WolfKhanGeneral

Allow Custom Battles To Have A Regular Reward System Again So Pilots Can Choose Exactly What Mode/Map They Desire To Play On.

Yes/No  

47 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like more freedom to fight how you wish to while retaining rewards in the modes you desire to play instead of playing the maps and modes you detest so very much and fight against like-minded souls who enjoy this just as much as you do?



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agree, we had this conversation in the past a couple of times..

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2 hours ago, ORCA1911 said:

This idea is only good on paper, iirc custom used to have rewards but due to rigged matches and what not for the sake of circumventing any kind of effort to get stuff, it was taken away. If this would be implemented it would end in having rooms rigged for one side and since you are random, u get the other side, the losing side. OR, majority want to play a specific map or something like that over and over again, long story short - i would prefer random queue over this any day.

honestly, when custom used to have rewards there were no real methods utilized to curcumvent abuse at all. it was an experiment that was used lightly and wrongly.

don't underestimate randoms, they're very capable of making decisions on their own, and most of the time, they'd be able to figure out that they will be able to find enjoyable games much more often under a custom lobby option than the current queue based randomness that we have today. it would also be less work in the long run for the devs, we've yet to have a proper fix for squads and wings that can't get a game most of the time in 4 years, and this would fix that day 1 regardless of settings. Custom Rooms with rewards was the right idea, it was implimented very wrongly and will serve its use with just a few adjistments and will work wonderfully. remember that with a random's random shuffle of sides each round will take care of most want to abuse from giving a win to one side or the other.

as for locked rooms, they will not exist for reward based custom matches and anyone that will want to pop in and see the match will be able to do so. in an active community, such abuse would be easy to see and action would be taken.

Under the custom game implimentation, random pilots skill will improve thanks to repetition of doing something they love. They will also be able to get more information on what to do in games because communication between players will be at an all-time high. retention rates will improve, not drop. don't forget that even for the worst of gamemodes, missions can push pilots to play such modes if they need it done enough. It's always possible to place the maps on shuffle as well if the room puts that in the settings for reward based custom matches. pilots will shoot for the enjoyment of a well fought match over simply trying to abuse grinding over rewards anyday.

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3 hours ago, ORCA1911 said:

This idea is only good on paper, iirc custom used to have rewards but due to rigged matches and what not for the sake of circumventing any kind of effort to get stuff, it was taken away. If this would be implemented it would end in having rooms rigged for one side and since you are random, u get the other side, the losing side. OR, majority want to play a specific map or something like that over and over again, long story short - i would prefer random queue over this any day.

 

You mean tell me that every other online game is doing it wrong? This is one the few games where it uses this archaic system of random mm that takes decades to get a match.

 

All these other game devs found a way to fix abuse. Are these devs not as skilled as the rest of them. I think not. My guess is the devs would rather find ways to extract money from us rather than give us a normal game where we can select the map and sever. If they made it like every other game they might have a stronger player base so they can extract more money from us. 

 

 

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The idea is not doable at all for the time being mostly due to the human nature sabotaging it to the core, and somewhat because of the wasting of resources by dedicating to make a PvP 0.9 (because it is basically a downgrade).

Or in drama language: One Queue to rule them all, one queue to find them, one queue to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

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2 hours ago, WolfKhanGeneral said:

honestly, when custom used to have rewards there were no real methods utilized to curcumvent abuse at all. it was an experiment that was used lightly and wrongly.

don't underestimate randoms, they're very capable of making decisions on their own, and most of the time, they'd be able to figure out that they will be able to find enjoyable games much more often under a custom lobby option than the current queue based randomness that we have today. it would also be less work in the long run for the devs, we've yet to have a proper fix for squads and wings that can't get a game most of the time in 4 years, and this would fix that day 1 regardless of settings. Custom Rooms with rewards was the right idea, it was implimented very wrongly and will serve its use with just a few adjistments and will work wonderfully. remember that with a random's random shuffle of sides each round will take care of most want to abuse from giving a win to one side or the other.

as for locked rooms, they will not exist for reward based custom matches and anyone that will want to pop in and see the match will be able to do so. in an active community, such abuse would be easy to see and action would be taken.

Under the custom game implimentation, random pilots skill will improve thanks to repetition of doing something they love. They will also be able to get more information on what to do in games because communication between players will be at an all-time high. retention rates will improve, not drop. don't forget that even for the worst of gamemodes, missions can push pilots to play such modes if they need it done enough. It's always possible to place the maps on shuffle as well if the room puts that in the settings for reward based custom matches. pilots will shoot for the enjoyment of a well fought match over simply trying to abuse grinding over rewards anyday.

BS randoms are utterly stupid in its majority, it is a fact that is repeated and proven over and over, it only takes to read general chat or look at peoples builds, or even read this damn forum.

 

1 hour ago, DrDeath_ScD said:

 

You mean tell me that every other online game is doing it wrong? This is one the few games where it uses this archaic system of random mm that takes decades to get a match.

 

All these other game devs found a way to fix abuse. Are these devs not as skilled as the rest of them. I think not. My guess is the devs would rather find ways to extract money from us rather than give us a normal game where we can select the map and sever. If they made it like every other game they might have a stronger player base so they can extract more money from us. 

 

 

Name a few MMO PvP games that have game progression handled via public rooms, not just character xp level and vanity items, the actual complex equipment and game progression.

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1 minute ago, WolfKhanGeneral said:

Corporation recruitment and involvement and training of said randoms will also increase. 

by insignificant margin?  maybe. 

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by a good large margin thanks to good solid communication that will be improved and caused by this move into custom lobbies where communication is desired.

friends will be made and the amount of squads and wings will increase, and so will baseline skill levels of 'most every pilot.

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10 minutes ago, WolfKhanGeneral said:

by a good large margin thanks to good solid communication that will be improved and caused by this move into custom lobbies where communication is desired.

friends will be made and the amount of squads and wings will increase, and so will baseline skill levels of 'most every pilot.

That is not how online PvP games work

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idk why wolfkhangeneral asked me to post in this thread but I guess I'll say I think this idea is bad?

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The same few naysayers as always. There is no saving this game when these people are what dictate all the nerfs and anything else.

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21 minutes ago, DrDeath_ScD said:

The same few naysayers as always. There is no saving this game when these people are what dictate all the nerfs and anything else.

:015_2:

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24 minutes ago, DrDeath_ScD said:

The same few naysayers as always. There is no saving this game when these people are what dictate all the nerfs and anything else.

? Do you have me confused with someone else? I don't talk with the developers and none of my ideas are in the game...

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The idea looks quite nice in theory. Taking a quick review on the comments i can tell there are plenty of complications. Since im not involved with SC atm, im not willing to read all and think this with proper time xD Sry wolfkhan. Maybe some tweakings could be implemented...like some sort of map suggestion available for everyone...idk...gl everyone hahaha

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in the end, the point of all this is to have an active discussion about the game and its direction. 

Whatever your views, state them as you wish. I've taken the liberty of inviting almost everyone on the forums, eng and russian, with most of the english forums having a pm invite for what my inbox could handle including any devs and mods accounts that I could find.

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18 hours ago, xKostyan said:

B) There was next to endless farm of resources of loot in locked rooms by trading wins and fixing matches

to be honest, that was a lazy fix for a predictible problem

also there were rooms at least in high times

 

but in general i do agree, that a game that focuses on "progression" (for your sense of pride and accomplishments i guess) will not work with private lobbies that have no rewards.

and the GUI / ranked MM doesnt help there either.

 

but cmon these arguments should be clear to you already that they are nonsense:

 

3 hours ago, xKostyan said:

Name a few MMO PvP games that have game progression handled via public rooms, not just character xp level and vanity items, the actual complex equipment and game progression.

this is not an mmo, even with a general lobby. massive means, massive. if this is an mmo, any game with a global matchmaker is an mmo. picking up items and having a general chat does not make it an mmo. just because the devs write mmo on the webpage, does not make it an mmo. not to mention, that i find star conflict does have numerous and complicated items, but its far from complex. but thats nitpicking.

 

okay okay this whole post is kinda nitpicking, but it would be even more nitty picky

 

2 hours ago, xKostyan said:

That is not how online PvP games work

erm, games without matchmakers actually do work like this, and even games with matchmakers have great amounts of private lobbies or matchmakers that can fill up custom lobbies (battlefield, counter strike, mechwarrior, starcraft arcade, to name a few, that do exactly this, some more, some less successful) - it is really just a question of game design, goals, reward and fun.

 

that be said, i think we are far from this suggestion however. i do believe it could be done, but it would need a ground up shift in world view. i do not think it is easily possible, and i think, we do agree that wolfkhan sees this in a slightly too, erm, "idealistic" perspective.

 

also i see no point, if you wanna play MM, you hit play. if you want customs, you go custom.

 

finally, you get the audience you design for, no need to blame the players

 

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17 minutes ago, g4borg said:

erm, games without matchmakers actually do work like this, and even games with matchmakers have great amounts of private lobbies or matchmakers that can fill up custom lobbies (battlefield, counter strike, mechwarrior, starcraft arcade, to name a few, that do exactly this, some more, some less successful) - it is really just a question of game design, goals, reward and fun.

1

I know how public rooms work :) I said that in regards to human interactions, most of the time public room interactions are the opposite of what wolf portrays them to be.

 

On top of that "room" gameplay lead to way more Join/Disconnected than it needs to be.

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I realize the possibility of toxicity rearing its ugly head, but I have faith in humanity that the better parts of our playerbase will give a good example to follow for the majority of players.

As for the join/disconnect, so long as the people who are joining in a room are decent enough to realize what they're getting into they won't dc until the end of the game or in the event of an emergency like it is now.

inactives can be kicked.

There will always be that one person who's a toxic **-wipe with or without a custom battle system.

the people who yell at others for not doing well to go back to tier 1 are a prime example of current toxicity and those types appear in 'most any shooter game. 

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cant vote.

i neither want a mere reintroduction of lobby rewards without some additional footwork (like clear invested time payoffs, and fixing exploiting the system)

 

nor do i know, whether i would still not just hit play

 

that being said, i enjoy custom servers in many games more, than matchmaking, as sometimes custom rules can actually fix issues, or change the feel of gameplay. e.g. i like to play on hardcore battlefield servers, or similar.

but i cannot imagine mixing a matchmaker that brings me in a custom server like that. even if in starcraft, the "put me in a random game" mechanic in arcade does work, but then again, thats a certain kind of "exploration".

 

i do think the game itself however should be balanced and designed, that theoretically, with a large population, such things should be possible

 

14 minutes ago, xKostyan said:

most of the time public room interactions are the opposite

okay, but on the other hand, the few times we organized some privates with nasa or wpk back in the days when MM was really dead were hours of fun gameplay.

 

except if kurdi made the teams.

 

additionally, i do know from the 2 years star battle on Sc2 arcade was a thing, hundreds of people actually met in teamspeaks, organized inhouses; similar to early day dota or aos players. of course none of the games i know where private lobbies are great, had item drops and progression - and it feels a bit like masochism to not have rewards in a game focusing so much on it.

 

so i do not even think its that much the "internet youth" of today, where every non-programmer or casual wannabe already knows how to dial in and play a game online. hehehe. or as i often say, look this is what we got, for making it "accessible".

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5 minutes ago, g4borg said:

 

 

okay, but on the other hand, the few times we organized some privates with nasa or wpk back in the days when MM was really dead were hours of fun gameplay.

 

except if kurdi made the teams.

 

 

The things that make custom games fun have nothing to do with rewards, it was just about the people you were playing with.

 

I don't think it's necessary to waste a patch on reworking the game economy to include custom games, it's fine as it is now.

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1 hour ago, DrDeath_ScD said:

The same few naysayers as always. There is no saving this game when these people are what dictate all the nerfs and anything else.

:015_2:

 

1 hour ago, Papitas said:

..l there are plenty of complications..

Yes, exactly!

 

51 minutes ago, g4borg said:

..and i think, we do agree that wolfkhan sees this in a slightly too, erm, "idealistic" perspective..

 

Yes, he might got it a bit all too idealistic. But in the end you could see a bit of his point, that it could, should, would be fun...somehow..

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1 hour ago, Cr0 said:

The things that make custom games fun have nothing to do with rewards, it was just about the people you were playing with.

whats your point?

 

the games were fun, regardless that there were no rewards

they were fun, when we organized it together, they were fun, when people joined randomly, or the few times we - or even i myself alone - joined random organizers through global

point is, they were fun because players were there solely for the game

but unlike in games, where this can be the core of the dedicated playerbase, it did not work well, because everybody in the group felt that somehow there is still something left out.

 

meaning the lack of rewards was still an issue that kept such activities from being repeated.

 

competitive games, which have no ingame mechanic rewards do not have this issue, and i tried to bring examples from my own experiences.

as i do have a history with quite a few hardcore games across genres, some of them also competitive, and i am not that young.

 

the fact, that there are games which have reward systems, that work no matter what kind of games you play, be it custom lobby or matchmaking, is all a question of how to use the carrots correctly. and there are quite a few examples of games, which do solve that issue quite well.

 

you can use carrots to reward people, but lack of rewards will always feel like a punishment.

it's kinda like the story of why blizzard switched from decreasing xp gain to "xp boost for offline time" in wow.

 

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1 hour ago, g4borg said:

whats your point?

 

the games were fun, regardless that there were no rewards

they were fun, when we organized it together, they were fun, when people joined randomly, or the few times we - or even i myself alone - joined random organizers through global

point is, they were fun because players were there solely for the game

but unlike in games, where this can be the core of the dedicated playerbase, it did not work well, because everybody in the group felt that somehow there is still something left out.

 

meaning the lack of rewards was still an issue that kept such activities from being repeated.

 

competitive games, which have no ingame mechanic rewards do not have this issue, and i tried to bring examples from my own experiences.

as i do have a history with quite a few hardcore games across genres, some of them also competitive, and i am not that young.

 

the fact, that there are games which have reward systems, that work no matter what kind of games you play, be it custom lobby or matchmaking, is all a question of how to use the carrots correctly. and there are quite a few examples of games, which do solve that issue quite well.

 

you can use carrots to reward people, but lack of rewards will always feel like a punishment.

it's kinda like the story of why blizzard switched from decreasing xp gain to "xp boost for offline time" in wow.

 

 

I agree with 'the games were fun, regardless that there were no rewards'

I don't agree with 'because everybody in the group felt that somehow there is still something left out. meaning the lack of rewards was still an issue that kept such activities from being repeated'

I never felt like I missed out on rewards for these games, and at the moment I don't play the game for rewards, so I think this topic is a bit of a waste of time.

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18 minutes ago, Cr0 said:

 

I agree with 'the games were fun, regardless that there were no rewards'

I don't agree with 'because everybody in the group felt that somehow there is still something left out. meaning the lack of rewards was still an issue that kept such activities from being repeated'

I never felt like I missed out on rewards for these games, and at the moment I don't play the game for rewards, so I think this topic is a bit of a waste of time.

in my experience, the ones who want rewards think of it as a waste of time to join in rewardless custom battles because of the sole reason that they want rewards, and the ones that do find the time to join in on rewardless custom battles leave soon after because they want to continue grinding rewards for the day regardless of how much enjoyment they're having. many of the people I have talked to wouldn't join into a custom room for the sole reason that they wouldn't be getting the chance to continue this grindy game while they did it.

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