WolfKhanGeneral

The easy way to understand resistance points

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I'll make this nice and simple.

pt. 1: Each resistance point is worth 0.01 x volume = volume given by resistance points. pt 2: original volume + volume given by resistance points = true volume amount.  

This is how much true volume your ship's durability will have, and will give you a clear understanding of how much tank your ship has over time by calculating both the true volume and enemy total damage over time. 

for the sake of this we'll focus on shield volume.

 

0.01 = 1 resistance point

base shield volume 20,000

 

how do you calculate resistance effects on shield volume?

let's say you have 145 shield resistance to a single type of damage, 

20,000 x 1.45 = 29,000

your original amount of shield volume is 20,000

now you add the amount you multiplied by the resists 20,000 shield + 29,000 shield = 49,000 total shield volume.

therefore, 20,000 base shield volume with 145 shield resists will increase the worth of your shield to 49,000 true shield volume.

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now if you want to understand enemy damage, you need only focus on true volume and enemy damage over time.

to do that you need only divide true shield volume by the amount of enemy damage to get how many seconds/minutes it would take to deplete the shield. 

let's say you have 49,000 true shield volume, and the enemy has 4k damage per second.

49,000 divided by 4,000 = 12.5

the enemy will take down the shield within 12.5 seconds, where as without resists your shield would be gone in 5 seconds,

and if you simply chose to increase your base volume to 32,000 it would be gone in 8

as you can see resists are worth a good deal more than just improving base volume levels.

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certain modules can reduce enemy damage by as much as 62% before resists are even calculated.

let's say you reduce the enemy damage of 20k by 50% using a damage reduction module against your shield volume of 20,000 + 100 resists (in short) = 80,000 true volume, 

enemy damage is reduced to 5k over all while your volume is at 20k, but the true worth is 20k enemy damage, and 80k true volume. it will take the enemy 4 seconds to get through your shield instead of just 2, or 1 second without resists and no damage reduction module. this is an extreme example, of course. 

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Regeneration per second.

how much is shield regeneration worth?

100 shield regeneration per second is worth 100 true shield volume per second.

if you add 100 resists, 100 base shield regen per second becomes 200 true volume per second, and 200 base shield regen becomes 400 true volume per second. and so on.

if you happen to see a destroyer with 1,000 base shield regeneration with at least 100 resists on each damage type, they're really regenerating 2,000 true shield volume per second.

thus 4k enemy damage may be reduced to just 2k true damage against true volume of 60k shield, greatly increasing the amount of time it would take for certain ships to take on such monstrosities. 30 seconds to get through that shield, not including cool down times of the gun, and so on, just continuous fire. 

In short, if you're going to have extra regeneration, you MUST have high resistances already in place to make proper use of their presence.

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in certain cases, you can have active modules that increase the amount of shield you have per battle, for instance a guard's active modules in rank 15 can give you an extra 27,270 base shield volume.

a Ronin can have 23,650 base shield volume, add the extra amount from the active modules, 27,270 + 23,650 =  50,920 base shield volume.

Furthermore, you can have 282 base shield volume regeneration per second alongside a minimum of 100 resistance points to all damages.

101,840 true shield volume + 564 true shield regeneration per second.

thus an enemy with 2k damage will have their damage reduced by 564 true volume for only 1,436 true damage per second

the regeneration is worth less the higher the enemy's dps of course, 10k dps won't be reduced much by 564, but it does help to a degree in the long run, in 20 seconds, 10k+ damage will have never happened. giving you another precious second until that shield runs out. 

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In regards to base shield regeneration with high resistances, their main benefit is not within the battle, but after the battle itself. 

when the fight is over, your shield must get back to full without using your best modules to get it back up there, and in certain cases those modules will not work fully because of a lack of energy,

thus high regeneration is needed to compensate to get the shield back to full base volume, in turn getting your true volume ready for battle. Mainly for Jericho ships and some federation ships. 

 

 

 

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On the flip side *added March 2019*

 

 

in a very extreme example of how high resistance points could increase your true shield volume. And how low enemy damage actually goes:

20,000 base volume x 12,000 resistance points.  = 20,000 x 120.00 = 2,400,000 added volume. = base + resistance volume added = 2,420,000 true shield volume.

200 shield regeneration per second would be regenerating 24,200 true shield volume per second.

 

The enemy's base damage would basically go from 20k per second without resistances to only dealing 165.289256198347 dmg per second. Adding in the regeneration, basically 0 damage. 

Pt.1: true volume ÷ enemy damage = amount of time to take down true volume. Pt.2: base shield volume  ÷ amount of time to take down true volume = new enemy damage

 

Now let's say we increase resistances to 999,000,000.

 

20,000 base volume × 9,990,000.00 resistance points

= 199,800,000,000 added volume

+20,000 base = 199,800,020,000 true volume. 

199,800,020,000 ÷ 20,000 base damage. = 9,990,001 seconds. 

20,000 base shield volume ÷ 9,990,001 seconds = new enemy base damage = 0.00200200180160 new base enemy damage per second.

 

 

You may never hit exactly 0, but you can well get so close that it may as well be. At that point the game engine may well calculate the damage as 0.

 

 

 

 

 

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Passive regeneration is bad, bad to the point that a player should ignore it altogether unless flying an Alien ship or destroyer, amount of passive slots on any given ship passive regeneration costs makes it an absolute waste of ships potential, period.

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And resistance is not linear last time I checked. At about 75% damage reduction, it effectively plateaus.

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1 hour ago, TheDarkRedFox said:

And resistance is not linear last time I checked. At about 75% damage reduction, it effectively plateaus.

DMG reduction is not linear, but it increases survivability linearly

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the problem with any data calculation regarding damage , resistance or survivability is that NOBODY that plays the game has access to the raw data. the game designers hide the data to prevent exploitation .... and there is ALWAYS damage dealt even if the resistances are at 100% .....  for example ...... survivability isn't calculated for strafe  and turn speed but a well built covert ops can survive longer than a a well built guard in a dog fight covert ops 10,000 survivability guard 90,000 survivability  if you listen to the older players  you will do better that if you listen to your calculator.

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9 minutes ago, Original_Taz said:

the problem with any data calculation regarding damage , resistance or survivability is that NOBODY that plays the game has access to the raw data. the game designers hide the data to prevent exploitation .... and there is ALWAYS damage dealt even if the resistances are at 100% .....  for example ...... survivability isn't calculated for strafe  and turn speed but a well built covert ops can survive longer than a a well built guard in a dog fight covert ops 10,000 survivability guard 90,000 survivability  if you listen to the older players  you will do better that if you listen to your calculator.

Actually all data is on the forum and on the game Wiki:

http://wiki.star-conflict.com/index.php?title=Resistance

If you want to get raw values for module or ship - just press "control" key while mouse over the item. Final damage values applied to the ship are recorded in combat.log.

And no - if resistances are set to 100% - you will take no damage. Engine will recognize incoming fire and will display "0" on your HUD. Regarding the strafe and turn values - they are nothing without a pilot that can utilize them, so they impact on survivability value cannot be calculated. It's just a base value saying how much damage ship can take before exploding if under sustained fire and if the shield/hull regen would be 0 points/second. 

Hope it helps, if not - ask away - we had this subject covered and discussed thoroughly few years ago. 

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DR Table.png

The Information on this graph goes hand in hand with the information I'm providing. 

at 300 resists enemy damage is reduced by 75% or in other words, 20,000 shield volume with 300 resists will be able to take on x4 the amount of damage until it depletes,

in other words, 20,000 volume + 300 resists or 20,000 x 3.0 = 60,000 volume added by resists, and then add original volume 20,000 + 60,000 = 80,000 true volume.

this information is accurate until resists hit a point where they reduce damage by 100%, resist amount needed unkown. 

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2 hours ago, Original_Taz said:

the problem with any data calculation regarding damage , resistance or survivability is that NOBODY that plays the game has access to the raw data. the game designers hide the data to prevent exploitation .... and there is ALWAYS damage dealt even if the resistances are at 100% .....  for example ...... survivability isn't calculated for strafe  and turn speed but a well built covert ops can survive longer than a a well built guard in a dog fight covert ops 10,000 survivability guard 90,000 survivability  if you listen to the older players  you will do better that if you listen to your calculator.

survive-ability is a lie, I've been saying that since the beginning. Also, positioning is everything in a guard, just as maneuverability is everything in an interceptor.

(with a little good positioning)

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21 minutes ago, WolfKhanGeneral said:

 

this information is accurate until resists hit a point where they reduce damage by 100%, resist amount needed unkown. 

From damage reduction formula: DR = (1-1/(1+R/100))*100

Where R= amount of resists - never.

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2 hours ago, niripas said:

And no - if resistances are set to 100% - you will take no damage. Engine will recognize incoming fire and will display "0" on your HUD. Regarding the strafe and turn values - they are nothing without a pilot

sorry, got confused by your comment there. 

well, back to the original statement. 

the information I'm providing is accurate. and resists will never take down enemy damage to 0.

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Collision damage is overrated, for Jericho ships get the 9-3/c implant for pvp.

empire ships, okay, but it depends on how you fly overall. Federation ships are a bit in-between. 

knowing how to fly and reduce the risk of colliding with a wall or another ship is very much needed.

not so much volume.

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14 minutes ago, aldermatias said:

Resistance is useless against collision damage. So, i recommend get volume.

I recommend learning how to fly

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7 minutes ago, WolfKhanGeneral said:

sorry, got confused by your comment there. 

well, back to the original statement. 

the information I'm providing is accurate. and resists will never take down enemy damage to 0.

 

2 hours ago, Original_Taz said:

 and there is ALWAYS damage dealt even if the resistances are at 100% .....

I was referring to this :) If anyone was able to set resistances to 100%, the game engine would detect incoming fire, did the math and would display 0 dmg taken on your HUD :-)

It will not happen of course, as the highest resistance value you can achieve in this game is, if I'm not mistaken, 1572 points, equaling to 94% DR.

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12 minutes ago, niripas said:

 

I was referring to this :) If anyone was able to set resistances to 100%, the game engine would detect incoming fire, did the math and would display 0 dmg taken on your HUD :-)

It will not happen of course, as the highest resistance value you can achieve in this game is, if I'm not mistaken, 1572 points, equaling to 94% DR.

It doesn't matter what the ingame cap is since a function f(x)=1/x will never be 0, so 1-1/x will never be 1.

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30 minutes ago, xKostyan said:

I recommend learning how to fly

-__-

 

I fly well.

 

But i really think volume is better than resistance since it is impossible to reach 100% resistance. Resistance is only good if you have a ally healing you. 

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3 minutes ago, John161 said:

It doesn't matter what the ingame cap is since a function f(x)=1/x will never be 0, so 1-1/x will never be 1.

 

50 minutes ago, niripas said:

From damage reduction formula: DR = (1-1/(1+R/100))*100

Where R= amount of resists - never.

Yes, John, I know that. I was referring to hypothetical case, where someone could replace the in game formula for DR from DR = (1-1/(1+R/100))*100  to DR = 100(where DR is measured as percentage of damage reduction). Doesn't matter. It was just short explanation how the game engine would react to such case. 

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4 minutes ago, niripas said:

 

Yes, John, I know that. I was referring to hypothetical case, where someone could replace the in game formula for DR from DR = (1-1/(1+R/100))*100  to DR = 100(where DR is measured as percentage of damage reduction). Doesn't matter. It was just short explanation how the game engine would react to such case. 

OK, it was just thought as an addition to your last sentence because I don't think that anyone here knows how such functions behave.

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2 hours ago, aldermatias said:

But i really think volume is better than resistance since it is impossible to reach 100% resistance. Resistance is only good if you have a ally healing you. 

if you focus on volume, your ability to keep that volume health at full is greatly reduced. 

with or without an engineer, it will take longer, much longer for your hull and/or shield to regenerate to full, and it would be worth less than if you had some good resists instead to boot. the less base volume you and an engineer have to deal with the better. you'll make you an engineer's full time job keeping up with such large amounts of base volume.

 

now if you combine high resists 100 minimum on all damage types and then add volume to the mixture? then it's not a bad idea, usually. it depends on the ship.

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Just out of curiosity, in skirmishes you get all alien ships sometimes.

How is it possible that a Tai'kin can have about 28.000 points? I mean shields+hull. If you consider resists, it can go higher.

Is this real?

I tried shooting one with a Jarl (yes, small dps, green-level weapon), no big deal. And the feeling was like i was shooting a cargo ship, lots and lots of ammo pouring into that. And if it has regens, you can say goodbye to the kill. Can't even begin thinking about shooting a That'ga or a Waz'got with a ceptor. Is this ok or does it need some adjusting? Also the dps they have is huge, it's like they have perfect conditions to shoot, they always hit, never miss, and so on.

 

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Because Tai'kin bots have 400% more hull and 500% more shields and and bots have perfect accuracy because they are... bots.

 

Anyway, you could create a new topic instead of posting an offtopic post in over year old topic :P

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7 hours ago, DaCookiez said:

Also the dps they have is huge, it's like they have perfect conditions to shoot, they always hit, never miss, and so on.

Dodge or take a more tanky ship. Elly team is the only challenge now in vs AI. AI was nerfed with it's autoaim, so if you are mobile, even the lazorr frig will not track you properly.

Edit: I just noticed this is a resists thread, why the heck are you necroing it and derailing at the same time?

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Adding this to the main post:

 

 

in a very extreme example of how high resistance points could increase your true shield volume -

20,000 base volume x 12,000 resistance points.  = 20,000 x 120.00 = 2,400,000 added volume. = base + resistance volume added = 2,420,000 true shield volume.

200 shield regeneration per second would be regenerating 24,200 true shield volume per second.

 

The enemy's base damage would basically go from 20k per second without resistances to only dealing 165.289256198347 dmg per second. Adding in the regeneration, basically 0 damage. 

Pt.1: true volume ÷ enemy damage = amount of time to take down true volume. Pt.2: base shield volume  ÷ amount of time to take down true volume = new enemy damage

 

Now let's say we increase resistances to 999,000,000.

 

20,000 base volume × 9,990,000.00 resistance points

= 199,800,000,000 added volume

+20,000 base = 199,800,020,000 true volume. 

199,800,020,000 ÷ 20,000 base damage. = 9,990,001 seconds. 

20,000 base shield volume ÷ 9,990,001 seconds = new enemy base damage = 0.00200200180160 new enemy damage per second.

 

You may never hit exactly 0, but you can well get so close that it may as well be. At that point the game engine may well calculate the damage as 0.

 

 

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