CinnamonFake

Making Balance Together!

115 posts in this topic

Your suggestions are an important source of inspiration and usually push us for making interesting decisions. We offer you to express your thoughts and be rewarded for it.

 

Your ideas can help to improve a lot in the game and we propose to create more bold suggestions. The author of each will receive 50 monocrystals! And ideas that will interest developers the most, will be rewarded additionally. The maximum reward is 500 monocrystals!

 

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Try to answer on each of the proposed questions. Remember that all these aspects are in one system and building a game balance. Please, give attention to every aspect.

 

  • What ranges of ranks can play in one battle? Try to mention your thoughts on general system of technical levels and ranks, crossing ranks in battles, etc.

  • What should be the main parameters for matchmaking teams? Things like characteristics of the ship, the skill of the pilot, etc. Remember - a large number of parameters significantly increases the waiting time!

  • How should Jericho, Federation and Empire ship trees be changed, but not significantly, so that the game becomes more interesting? For example adding new modules, special modules, particular ship rework etc.

  • What exactly do you think should be changed in Crew Implants system?

  • What should be changed in the Bonus System, which strengthen ships in uneven battles?

 

Leave your ideas in this form!

 

Remember, your thoughts are our inspiration.

Good luck and see you in space!

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Allow me to direct you to my suggestion feed.

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21 minutes ago, Gizmomac said:

Quite hard to explain ideas without pictures in a small text field.

You can add links to some screenshots to your answers ;)

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What about topic links?

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Ranges: I is very simple, most ships have a huge power spike when they have an extra active module added right? so there is your answer. Make the battle tiers accordingly to that, easy to do and will have a great effect upon the balance issue. If you want to keep the battle tiers system you can adjust this by changing the ships themselves. I'll talk about this in the designed ship rebalance area.

 

MM teams: I know the more shackles you put on the MM generator the longer are the waiting times. What makes every game broken in pvp is the unbalance of this. In my honest opinion a skill based system should be used, combined with a modifier related to the ships. This is where it gets interesting:

 

-Skill level modifier: Take into account the recorded performance for the player with that specific ship, but by the love of the gods, don't make this "rank" public, people will learn how to manipulate itif you do. It should be based on how well they do in the match, consider healing also so the engineering ships can do they hole they are intended for, same with buffs, objective captures, those should be very valuable to this "rank" system, a player that plays to win should be rewarded over the player that plays to farm kills

-Ship modifier: Every ship should have a modifier attached to it (it should be something like a multiplier for the player skills rank. For exemple, if a player is piloting lets say a gargoyle, it is a very rare very overpowered ship, so her multiplier should be something like 1.5-2x the rank of the player, now the player is piloting an engineering ship, that he just got and he is using mostly green modules, give it a slack, put a 0.3-0.5 multiplier on the ship. 

-How this is relevant to the MM: Simple, make sure that the top 5 players have a very close skill range between them, put shackles on the MM he will be unshackled based on the time it is taking to find a match, for example: lets say that the team difference in power is allowed to be at best on 50%. On the first 10s it will try to find a team that the top 5 players are 5% max one from another, the teams could be at 10%, if it can't find a match, on the next 20s it will increase this number by 5% and 10% respectively, until it will reach a 25% - 50% max.

 

This is a very complex system, and require A LOT of tunning, but in a few months, maybe a year you will have a very fair MM system, that will take into account the overpowered ships, the ships that are being grinded, and the skills of the player. It also has the plus to fix a broken ship that compensates the lack of skill of  player. It will be very unlikely for a new player to meet a gargoyle in battle when he is first grinding the game.

 

The ships should be changed like this: 

Tiers 1-2: They should be considered the newbie ships, they need to have only one active module, the passive modules available to them should be very minimal and they need to have their own MM system, new players should play alone. This will give the MM system time to learn how good a player is, is he a reroll account? things like that, and will adjust the mm once he get level 3.

Tier 3-5: They will get the second module and all the class modules should be available to them, so they can use this tier to learn how active modules work, keep the passive modules ver simple heve so they don't get overwhelmed.

Tier 6-7: Give this tier all the weapons that that class can use, keep the 2 active modules rule and the passive slots very simples

Tier 8-10: Give this tier a 3rd module, all the weapons and all the equips available, this s the mid tier, that most people will use to play missions because it is very casual and don't require a team, having the option to fit your ship with variety and clever thinking is a very good thing

Tier 11-13: Give them the 4th module, they should know how to use them at this point.

Tier 14-15: Change the ship bonuses they get, and the layout they have to be able to be custom made, like the destroyers are for example, At this point they will learn how to create a "dream ship" that they can use in PVP and the hardest of the missions and it is a very good reward for them.

 

How can this be balanced. Simple: for exemple, give the tier 1 ship a better bonus or passive module layout to compensate for the extra hitpoints better stats that the tier 2 ship have. You should consider compensating for the skill tree also in this one, for example today tier 10 gets a resistance bonus that tier 8 and 9 lack, this makes them way harder to kill, they should get very bad layout and skill bonuses to compensate this to compensate this. What i am trying to say is give high tiers more options, shackle low tiers so they don't have to take the decision and make a bad one. For example, give ier 8 and 9 guard a bonus resist, on the tier 10 give ita speed bonus for example.

 

Crew implants (skills) to be honest  think this system works well as it is, the only thing that i would do to change it is swapping some powerful ones to lower tiers, like the said before tier 10 bonus could be swaped with the tier 2 bonus for example, the roll that has the capacitor increase and the afterburner energy use should be swapped with the critical damage roll for example... So what would i do is, give low tiers the survival skills, mid tiers should have the damage skills and high tier should have the utility skills. This can be done to compensate a little bit the power spike of the ships, As said before with tier that i suggested is a huge spike in power, give them the worst perks to compensate this. Use this system to give Aces more susrvival, and pros more utility and specialy to help balance the power spikes. One extra thing you should consider is punting drawbacks on them. For example the tier 10 change them to this, one will give you armor resistance but will lower your shild resistance for the same value, other will do the opposite and the last on will increase you speed a lot in exchange of some of your armor and shield resistance.

 

The bonus system should be completely removed. That is a lazy way to fix a unbalanced game. It is a nice placeholder until ships can be more balanced and he skill system is implemented, but it should be removed ASAP. What you can change now that will help A LOT is simples, every ship will be buffed to a elite status on PVP, and every module will upgraded as if it was a orange/purple, and some overpowered modules like cristal plates should b nerfed on PVP (for example they will always count as white modules) This will lower a lot the power difference between a player that is grinding a ship and the seal clubber with a rare OP ship.  Also it will encourage people to do PVP. I myself don't play it because the way it s now it is very unfair, and i am sure you know this, otherwise you will not be asking for our thoughts.

 

I hope some of this are useful or that they inspire the team to make the right adjustments. Please consider at least giving mid tiers more options to fit the ships, there are a lot of awesome modules taht get available only on tier 11 that will increase a lot the variety of ships capable of doing PVE with great effect. Some of us are so casual that we don't care at all with the pvp system, and they are very frustrated with pve being the way it is. Tier 11+ mission can only be completed with a very specific ship with a very skilled player with a half decent team or they need to have a god squad to do it, tier 6 stock ships with white modules get destroyed by the AI, A LOT of people, myself included gave up this game for a long time because of this. I was a beta tester and i stopped playing the game for years because of this frustration, now i came back to give it another chance.

 

Thanks for your time and sorry for the long message.

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You haven't read the full text of what cinnamon said ^^'...

That not the place for answers 

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16 minutes ago, EndeavSTEEL said:

You haven't read the full text of what cinnamon said ^^'...

That not the place for answers 

 

 I think its a good thing if some of those ideas never make it to the developers...

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Fill the form not the post ppl.

 

Wellp, submitted mine, there goes nothing. :D

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Coz one might be read, the other prolly not :p

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7 minutes ago, ORCA1911 said:

Coz one might be read, the other prolly not :p

they both will get red, just by different groups of people

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Also because RNGesus forbid anyone have an idea and someone say no like they actually have a say. LOL :p

 

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Taking ideas from everyone is the worst thing you can do.

Listen to veterans! They have been playing this game for years.

Most of them got knowledge and expertise.

 

We do not need to make this game even further into 'n00b-friendly' maggot  sauce.

 

Will reason prevail over the smell of money? Probably not. Not strong enough, to resist the dark side of the "force".

If it's not an illusion of caring, then it's okay. We will just need to sit together and drink as buddies!

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4 minutes ago, Koromac said:

Taking ideas from everyone is the worst thing you can do.

Listen to veterans! They have been playing this game for years.

Most of them got knowledge and expertise.

 

We do not need to make this game even further into 'n00b-friendly' maggot  sauce.

 

Will reason prevail over the smell of money? Probably not. Not strong enough, to resist the dark side of the "force".

If it's not an illusion of caring, then it's okay. We will just need to sit together and drink as buddies!

To bad most of the veterans are to close minded to comprehend a full picture of balance, so there is hardly much difference

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4 minutes ago, Koromac said:

Taking ideas from everyone is the worst thing you can do.

Listen to veterans! They have been playing this game for years.

Most of them got knowledge and expertise.

 

We do not need to make this game even further into 'n00b-friendly' maggot  sauce.

 

Will reason prevail over the smell of money? Probably not. Not strong enough, to resist the dark side of the "force".

If it's not an illusion of caring, then it's okay. We will just need to sit together and drink as buddies!

latest?cb=20130707032319

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11 minutes ago, xKostyan said:

To bad most of the veterans players are to close minded to comprehend a full picture of balance, so there is hardly much difference

:) 

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xKostyan

 

1) What ranges of ranks can play in one battle? Try to mention general system of technical levels, crossing ranks in battles, etc.

 

Imho the most balanced, diverse and fun battles we had during the time when we had 3.5 queues (tutorial/easy/average/hard ) backed by rank buff matrix, but for this to work well we need to reduce amount of ranks in the game and instead of 15 we need 12, currently due to equipment, implant, and base stats vertical progression creates too much of a difference in a base power of our ships, compressing ranks would allow for much more balanced games, on top of that that would eliminate a lot of a psychological factor for rank difference (like r10 fighting r15 even backed up by survivability and dmg buffs).

1.1) Rank compression has been long overdue:

- Ranks 7, 10 and 13 should be evenly spread between edge ranks (6-8 / 9-11 / 12-14) resulting in total of 12 ranks

- Implants of ranks  10, 14 and 15 should be consequently removed and their effects merged with other implants.

This leads to:

-- Tutorial queue (rank 1-4)

-- Easy (ranks 5-7)

-- Average (ranks 8-10)

-- Hard ( ranks 10-12)

 

Average and Hard have overlapping rank to mitigate "top of the food chain" in the middle of the game

 

1.2) Player is allowed to play any ship of a queue range in the battle, regardless of game mode (be it beacon hunt or Capture the Beacon) and all ships within a queue range should be eligible for Quest/Missions/Task credit (rank based, as long as other requirements are met, like role, weapon/dmg type/game mode and etc).

 

1.3) These queues should be persistent for Tournaments, Dreadnoughts, PvE and Raid missions

 

1.4) System of a buff matrix for lower ranks is fine for survivability and missiles but was way too much in damage.

-- +5% dmg buff per rank difference

-- + 15 resistance to shields and hull per rank difference

(example r10 in a hard (10-12) queue would have +10% dmg buff and +30 resistances)

 

======================

2) What should be the main parameters for matchmaking teams? Things like characteristics of the ship, the skill of the pilot, etc. Remember - a large number of parameters significantly increases the waiting time!

 

2.1) These factors should influence player's matchmaker weight:

-- Win ratio within a queue range

-- Elo within queue range

-- Overall battles (<500 / < 2000 / <4000 / >4000 )

2.2) +/- 1 player for squads matching:

-- 2 men can be matched with randoms

-- 3 men need at least 1x 2 men squad on opposite team

-- 4 men need at least 1x 3 men squad on opposite team OR 3x 2 man squads

 

2.3) Equipment should not be included into MM calculations because as long as we have 4 slots, equipment's average can be heavily influenced by adding 2-3 fully white ships that will never be flown in the battle.

2.4) Overall ELO rating is bad for MM because it is heavily influenced by going to easy game modes and playing recklessly vs new players with very low ELO (it will drop a lot by each death which skews mm weight in higher ranks)

2.5) Greatly reduce dmg in a tutorial and easy queues - it's very frustrating for new players to instantly die to unknown sources over and over, let them feel the game better while allowing longer life spans.

 

======================

3) How should Jericho, Federation and Empire ship trees be changed, but not significantly, so that the game becomes more interesting? For example adding new modules, special modules, particular ship rework etc

 

Currently, all ships of the same class (Frigates/Fighters/Interceptors) have same base maneuverability stats, with difference in energy, top speed, and survivability), there should be higher diversity between factions (these apply to all ships within a faction):

3.1) Base stats:

-- Empire reduce acceleration by ~10%, increase capacitor energy volume by 20%

-- Federation ships should have higher maneuverability and acceleration  (+10% to acceleration, pitch, and rotation)

-- Jericho +20 resistance to shields and +10% energy regeneration per second

 

3.2) Active gameplay:

- Empire has it +weapon dmg bonus across all ships (increase it by another 5%)

- Federation gets +15-20% CD reduction on active modules (multipurpose and role modules). Philosophy of Federation is to get in and get out, it can not tank straight up dmg and the majority of its gameplay is based on their active modules.

- Jericho gets +15-20% Effect of active modules (multipurpose and actives)

 

======================

 

4) What exactly do you think should be changed in Crew Implants system?

 

Currently, a lot of implants provide a very minimum and insignificant bonus, making it indistinguishable from 2 other implants of the same ranks. Most of the implants (all implants of the same rank) need their effect increased to increase actual difference and significance of a choice of each individual implant.

 

======================

5) What should be changed in the Bonus System, which strengthens ships in uneven battles?

See (1.4)

 

All of that implies Elly ships gets a toning down at some point.

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Jericho gets +15-20% Effect of active modules (multipurpose and actives)

oh no can you imagine the the stuns on waki AE?! I don't think jericho should be getting such a buff at all imo. If my math is right, ion diffuser stun would last 10.3 seconds on mk5.

 

also making the factions more diverse is a bad idea, could end up in some ships not being used at all (ie why use empire recon if its slow, has bad acc, when you can fly a fed with ultra high speed stats)etc.

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2 minutes ago, QACinnamonTroll said:

oh no can you imagine the the stuns on waki AE?! I don't think jericho should be getting such a buff at all imo.

And that be only as good (still worse) than Stuns we used to have on Waki AE awhile back, which imho were still ok. Each CC reduction effect (like protons and 2-3) reduce by %% affecting this "extra" effect in not linear way, so no that would not make those stunz as much as you think they will be.

And that is only 1 ship out of the whole faction.

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Alien ECM is more like a parasite. Gonna be able to take over ships and stuff.

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1 hour ago, TheDarkRedFox said:

Alien ECM is more like a parasite. Gonna be able to take over ships and stuff.

It will end up taking over your account and steal your GS, THATS WHY I CAN GET RID OF THEM FOR YOU NOW FOR A 29.99% DISCOUNT ON TAI'KIN NODE PARTS.

The offer is limited and I will not be held responsible for any issues with the transactions.

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But no joke it will literally jack your ship.

 

That is unless they see my comments and go "just because he said that we are abandoning that feature" XD

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