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betatrash

ECM modules do not work on Ellydium ships

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Due to most of their abilities not being flagged as 'active modules', ECM abilities do not function. This also applies to unique ship modules, and Energy Converter (which should be flagged as active). Logs not applicable.

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ECM Statis Generator and Ion Diffuser do not work on modules such as Matter Absorber, Emergency Jump, Matter Transformer, Reserve Generator, Dual-channel repeater, etc... Neither does it work to disable Energy Converter.

In other words, they get active benefits from their passive modules, which cannot be disabled. ie: Thar'ga's multiple heal skills. I doubt it disables the passive heal from the special module either, once it is activated.

Furthermore, I've run into way too many instances of Thar'Ga and Tai'Kin not being affected at all by ECM: They can still fire their guns and use active modules after being disabled, with no delay. They cannot all be explained by Combat Reboot, which has a 60 sec cooldown, and 2 sec duration. Implant R8-2 can prevent engine disables, R14-1 is not applicable on R11 Thar'Ga's. This happens much too often to be attributable to Combat Reboot, but I'm not sure why it happens... they're just inherently immune.

Reflected Rage maybe? But that also has a 50 sec cooldown, 2 second active time. It seems however, that they're not activating these modules after being disabled, they're already immune before being disabled, since they don't stop firing or activate a module so far as I can see. In fact, I've used Statis on them, to which they are immune, 5 seconds later, use Diffuser, and they're still immune... Possible status effect bug that fails to remove immunity? Reflected Rage active time bug? The hull damage lock-on effect lasts longer than 1-2 seconds... more like 5+ seconds.

Why is Reflected Rage just a superior version of Combat Reboot again? :\

2 typos: Ion DIffuser uses a capital letter 'I' in Diffuser. Dual-channel Repeater is not capitalized. In fact, it seems all of the alien modules lack consistency, as old modules are capitalized, but these are not.

 

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There's a lot of errors in your analysis. 

The fact that some ellydium ships can still shoot/use modules are a stasis or Ion diffuser is due to how disables works. 

You can only apply 2 disables in a 30 second window. And the 2nd will be reduced by 50%.

 

Reflected rage is not a better version of reboot. It's actually worse (same goes for the default special module). 

Instead of a 2.3 second immunity, you get only 1sec AND some self damage. 

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I don't see why disables would work differently on Ellydium ships? Why would 'some ships' and not others? I don't notice these same issues for other ships, at all.

Nowhere is it stated that only 2 disables can be applied. Nowhere is it stated the second disable is reduced by 50%. In fact, this goes against my experience, whereas I can disable any other ship for 3 secs, then another 6 seconds shortly after that. Not to mention, I can launch continuous Ion Warhead missiles every 6 seconds for a disable (5 in 30 seconds).

In terms of DPS, Reflected Rage is clearly superior, as it is capable of several thousand damage with 2-3 targets locked on, while also discouraging missiles, active abilities like ECM, etc... It most likely prevents more damage than 1 second of immunity in that regard as well. Self-damage is mitigated by Thar'Ga's healing abilities. It's simply better. Active time on the hull damage is at least 4-5 secs and can reach 4k on a single target, enough to reduce many interceptor hulls to scrap.

If it were worse, then they'd all equip Reboot, but instead they equip Reflected Rage in 100% of cases.

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Disables works exactly the same way for ellydium then standard ships. 

They do work like that. You may not have noticed it yet, but they really do. 

 

 

No. The reduced duration is a huge nerf to how Thar Ga played. 

Ever seen Thar Ga using combat reconstructor and energy converter? 

They works even under immunity. You get healed and revert damages that you don't take due to immunity. 

Nerfing the duration nerf this use. 

It also makes Thar Ga weaker to guard's mobility debuff. 

 

 

 

Fact is that Thar Ga can't use combat reboot. 

It's not available. 

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Need an official source for those comments on 2 disables in 30 secs, and 50% reduction on 2nd. Anyways, it doesn't explain why not even the first works... or why the second fails to work, and is not simply reduced.

I also get disabled by ECM, Stasis first, then Ions, and the Ions still last 6 seconds, not 3. Well, 4 in my case, due to proton wall, but not 2 seconds...

Why would a duration 'nerf' be required to prevent use of a broken mechanic? No damage = no converter, plain as day, fixes all instances of such abuse. Seems like another 'aliens are responsible' mechanic, with no legit explanation.

Multipurpose modules solve the Guard debuff problem. Not to mention, 1 ECM is enough to shut down 2 Guards. Guards are rubbish anyways in the current DPS meta.

 

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That's easy to test the ECM debuff. 

Ask a friend to do a custom with an ECM. And use special module ; then stasis (50% reduced) ; then ion (removed). 

 

No, because removing the immunity mechanic in energy converter would nerf all gunships. 

It was broken only with Thar Ga. So they nerfed Thar Ga only, by replacing it's reboot with a different one. 

Standard gunship can still use the energy converter like this, and it is not a problem. 

 

 

Multipurpose modules don't solve the guard problem.

They delay it. Multipurpose remove Tacklers debuff. But guard's debuff is an AOE debuff, so 2 second after the use of the multipurpose, the slow will come back. 

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7 minutes ago, Swifter43021 said:

No, because removing the immunity mechanic in energy converter would nerf all gunships. 

It was broken only with Thar Ga. So they nerfed Thar Ga only, by replacing it's reboot with a different one.

No, it would nerf Energy Converter. Since when is it mandated that Gunships must use Energy Converter? AH, you must use/abuse Energy Converter... makes sense.

Why would it be broken only with Thar'Ga? That makes absolutely no sense. It means the Thar'Ga is broken to begin with, and the problem lies elsewhere.

Shoot the Guard from 1k+ after leaving the debuff... If you're a Thar'Ga, that's like shooting butter with the sun... If multi-purpose solves the Guard problem for interceptors, then it certainly does for Thar'Ga as well, which is like an interceptor on crack.

Well, I'll test ECM. Regardless of the outcome, this happens primarily on Thar'Gas and no other gunships. First, second, 30 second wait, no difference. It's exceedingly rare that a disable actually does work on a Thar'Ga. Furthermore, this should be stated in the disable module description, and it is not.

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We don't planning making 'emergency' modules depend of ECM modules yet

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27 minutes ago, Skula1975 said:

We don't planning making 'emergency' modules depend of ECM modules yet

What about Energy Converter? It's active, but also not affected.

Can the healing from Crystal Hunger, Combat Reconstructor, Condensing Crystals or Crystal Predator be disabled? They are Special Modules, thus also 'active' modules. Or is module disabled, but healing persists?

What about Matter Absorber? Is it the only heal in the game that cannot be disabled by ECM then? Or does it apply to the Special Mods above as well?

Some of them don't seem 'emergency' to me, like Dual-Channel Repeater and Matter Transformer, they are damage buffs which trigger on kills. Are they affected by ECM? Is Warp Targeting damage effect disabled, or does it persist after the disable wears off?

What about camouflage shield refractor? If a disable is used, does that reset the timer to 10 seconds? Or can they still cloak 1 second later, while disabled? Does taking damage reset the timer, or can they go stealth while being shot?

 

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Energy converter should be removed altogether, stop shooting the enemy or get mauled 2x harder is beyond stupid. Any half good person using that sht right and you're done. 

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5 hours ago, betatrash said:

Need an official source for those comments on 2 disables in 30 secs, and 50% reduction on 2nd. Anyways, it doesn't explain why not even the first works... or why the second fails to work, and is not simply reduced.

I also get disabled by ECM, Stasis first, then Ions, and the Ions still last 6 seconds, not 3. Well, 4 in my case, due to proton wall, but not 2 seconds...

Why would a duration 'nerf' be required to prevent use of a broken mechanic? No damage = no converter, plain as day, fixes all instances of such abuse. Seems like another 'aliens are responsible' mechanic, with no legit explanation.

Multipurpose modules solve the Guard debuff problem. Not to mention, 1 ECM is enough to shut down 2 Guards. Guards are rubbish anyways in the current DPS meta.

 

I confirm CC diminishing, keep in mind that it is not only your disables hat get diminished, all CCs get affected by this, so if you have 2x ECM 1st stasis is 100%, but 2d stasis from a 2d ECM will be 50% reduced.

This is one of the reasons why ECMs initiation with run in with aoe Stasis is BAD - it applies 50% reduction to next CC to all targets in range.

is this official enough?

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45 minutes ago, Chernoplot said:

Energy converter should be removed altogether

Well, as I posted elsewhere:

Reflect damage before resists applied, not to mention 100% reflected (Hence > 100%), ahem-cough and 2.5x multiplier? I've never seen this in a game before... probably for good reason.

Don't even get me started on the Survival 3x multiplier which benefits DPS/sniping classes. Abomination.

 

43 minutes ago, xKostyan said:

is this official enough?

In order for it to be official, it should be quoted in the module description.

I barely use Metastable (aoe), it's beyond useless in most situations except for a last-ditch effort to occupy/distract the enemy, or negate damage. Normally ions first, then stasis, which also makes more sense if the 2nd is reduced.

Is Inhibitor Swarm considered a disable? This would cause issues either way. ie:

- If they are and target gets hit by team's inhibitor swarms, it makes your ECMs essentially useless, as it nullifies their role.

- If they aren't, then Thar'Gas can freely spam disables without duration or immunity concerns.

ie: If target gets hit by inhibitor, then you can only apply one disable, at half duration. That's a pretty useless ECM.

It also diminishes the effectiveness of disables, since they can still use active modules. Firing guns/missiles is less of a concern since they are immobile. Anyways, inhibitor functions don't belong on a DPS-class vessel...

In other words, Thar'Gas are filling the role of ECMs, or reducing their effectiveness, rendering them mostly useless.

At least it should not let you use a disable skill on a target which is immune, so you don't end up with skills on cooldown. They could have been hit with Ion Warhead, a Tackle, etc... in the last 30 seconds, without you knowing. It's not so much a problem for those classes, because they fill other roles, but for ECMs, it's boderline broken.

I mean, that's probably part of it... Thar'Gas are having their little fights, you fly along in your poor ECM, try to disable one, only to find out he's already been hit twice... of course, you never find out... before you die...

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@Skula1975 Fine, I'd like to propose some new bugs (you may call them 'suggestions'):

- Thar'Ga has a disable/immobilize which it should not, since it a DPS-class vessel, and reduces the effectiveness of support-class vessels.

- Targets immune to disables should not set your abilities on cooldown, or use energy, since you have no way of knowing. They should also provide feedback to indicate the target is immune.

- 50% reduction and immunity on 2nd/3rd use are not mentioned in any skill descriptions.

Just wondering if I could get a response to my previous questions regarding those 'emergency' modules.

@xKostyan I hope all those push/pull effects some guns have, or tractor beam, or dessy modules don't count as aoe 'controlling effects', because that would simply be disastrous.

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29 minutes ago, betatrash said:

I hope all those push/pull effects some guns have, or tractor beam, or dessy modules don't count as aoe 'controlling effects', because that would simply be disastrous.

They don't

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16 hours ago, betatrash said:

- Thar'Ga has a disable/immobilize which it should not, since it a DPS-class vessel, and reduces the effectiveness of support-class vessels.

- Targets immune to disables should not set your abilities on cooldown, or use energy, since you have no way of knowing. They should also provide feedback to indicate the target is immune.

 

Hello!) For these discussions we have a special section called Game Discussion, there you can debate with other pilots on how the things works and why. And we're also checking this out. If you have a detailed suggestion reflecting some themes in game, feel free to post in Suggestion section.

16 hours ago, betatrash said:

- 50% reduction and immunity on 2nd/3rd use are not mentioned in any skill descriptions.

There's a lot of information, which is not included in the description in the game. When we do those, we have to choose the most needed info, cause the description should be short and undersandable in the first place. The interface should not be overloaded with text. I can offer you to create an article about that on SC Wiki for example, that's the perfect place for every additional information about the game

Edited by CinnamonFake
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@CinnamonFake The discussion was necessary to ascertain the cause of this issue. This information is critical, not a minor detail, and should be included in descriptions. This doesn't belong on wiki, as it is basic required information. Wiki may be useful for detailed information, formulas or explanations only. It should not be required reading to understand fundamental information.

But, thanks for the response and looking into the matter of support-class vessel effectiveness reduction.

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Can't disable Hive either, or those lazor beams on the Thar'Ga, whatever that is... and what gives, Inhibitor Swarm damage is 3.5k in Survival, on hull with 45% resist. Delete Survival, bug fixed, partially. ;\

What? I don't even... what is essentially a 5 sec disable, does 2.5k damage standard? 7.5k in Survival? ;o

Yea, I'm prepared to call BS on these ships. Gunship + ECM + Heals you can't even disable... great idea that was.

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ECM does not work on Tai'Kin either. The purple stink clouds it leaves behind, whatever they're called. More hacks...

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What's wrong with having stuff immuned to disables ? ECM can already counter everything. We need more things that ECM can't block.

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AoE should be possible to disable, just like non-emergency no-target modules should.

Furthermore, this is only the case for Ellydium/Unique !!!!, as most other abilities on standard/premium ships can be disabled !!!!

What is so difficult to understand about that? Because, I don't even........

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18 minutes ago, betatrash said:

AoE should be possible to disable, just like non-emergency no-target modules should.

Arguments ?

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23 minutes ago, betatrash said:

AoE should be possible to disable, just like non-emergency no-target modules should.

Why?

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