IFreakinLoveBass

When did Thar'Ga make you a "good" pilot?

Thar'Ga Balance   31 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you own a Thar'Ga?

    • Yes
      19
    • No
      10
    • I want one!
      2
  2. 2. Do you think the Thar'Ga out-classes other gunships? If yes then by how much?

    • Yes by 25%
      0
    • Yes by 50%
      3
    • Yes by 75%
      4
    • Yes by 100%
      24
    • No
      0
  3. 3. Do you think the Thar'Ga needs a major development in upgrade cost to make it more balanced or a total redesign?

    • Yes! Much higher develop cost!
      2
    • Total redesign... its BS.
      29

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70 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, Spongejohn said:

Also Recons have speed debuff.

Guard, tacklers and recons, let's see what is the thing that they have in common... Oh wait, there it is:

They are not the damage dealer of their classes.

Tha'rga is a gunship, guess where the problem is about giving all of them mobility debuff...

Huh I forgot about recons. That's weird. But you are right yes.

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Uhm, as far as I'm concerned pretty much every role for the fighter class is supposed to be a damage dealer, gunships have the overdrive, tacklers have the target painter and the ODG damage buff and commands have the Valkyrie, as for the frigates guards also have the damage bonus when the damage they receive matches the shield phase, but the 4 turrets won't make that much of a difference in the end :/

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39 minutes ago, xXThunderFlameXx said:

Uhm, as far as I'm concerned pretty much every role for the fighter class is supposed to be a damage dealer, gunships have the overdrive, tacklers have the target painter and the ODG damage buff and commands have the Valkyrie, as for the frigates guards also have the damage bonus when the damage they receive matches the shield phase, but the 4 turrets won't make that much of a difference in the end :/

The pure damage dealer are gunships, cov-ops and long ranges. Any of the modules from fighters you mentioned are supporting mods that works at their best when used in combination with other ships. Boosting damage output on fighters not meant for that, is usually a bad idea and (90% of the time) a waste of potential. Exception are always there oc.

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On 3/20/2017 at 7:05 PM, niripas said:

32 xenos per day + 90 per week + Xmas event. Theoretically it would be up to 48 per day, but I have a life as well :D. Do the math. 

How long does it take to get fed up being target practice? Well - if the person is stupid - very short time. If the person is smart, he will start to ask questions. If he is smarter - he will figure out the solution. Why would I think that feeling of being target practice will trigger a purchase of whatever? That's illogical. "I suck, but if I buy a new toy, I will be OP"? Give a mediocre driver a F1 car and see how much OP he will become. From what I'm reading here tharga is easy killable when the pilot is mediocre. I'll give you a hint - any ship is easy to kill if it's driver suck. OTOH - I wouldn't dare to face Milf 1v1 on any ship. 

Tharga failed design? Why? It's deadly in the right hands and slightly harder to kill in the wrong ones. I believe you didn't bother to join thar'ga testing during the weekend and voice your concerns on those changes? Strange is no one is mentioning other failed designs - Phoenix and Reaper to name a few. They were so bad at the beginning no one wanted to fly them. Then Phoenix started to be good and Reaper OP. Now both are perfectly balanced.

Also - I promised someone to give him a clue how to counter thar'ga. As one picture speaks thousand words: screenshot-170310-213100.jpg

That's my thar'ga, flying at full speed.

32 xenos per day doing what? 1 xeno per 10 kills? 
So in your expert opinion whoever is getting killed in 2 shots by an overpowered gun or cannot shoot down a thar because it can survive sustained fire from a frig is stupid.
If you are teamed up with people who do not know the game you will lose no matter who you are. Smart or stupid. 
FYI I have landed at least 8-10 coil gun shots at a thar with a t5 frig and had NO EFFECT on the target. How much more OP can it get? 
A pathetic attempt to act as if nothing is happening and of course the majority of people who act as your target practice are not going to be here for long.

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Destroyers have 2 movement impairing modules too.

Prem Guards and Ronin can actualy do almost LRF type of DMG with main guns

Prem recons and craft Cynin are easily dmg dealers with build in crits and dmg bonuses, spy drones that do xxxx tons of dmg by reducing healing and shield drain which is "white" dmg, and don't even get me started on proximity mines

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5 minutes ago, belisarius said:

32 xenos per day doing what? 1 xeno per 10 kills? 
So in your expert opinion whoever is getting killed in 2 shots by an overpowered gun or cannot shoot down a thar because it can survive sustained fire from a frig is stupid.
If you are teamed up with people who do not know the game you will lose no matter who you are. Smart or stupid. 
FYI I have landed at least 8-10 coil gun shots at a thar with a t5 frig and had NO EFFECT on the target. How much more OP can it get? 
A pathetic attempt to act as if nothing is happening and of course the majority of people who act as your target practice are not going to be here for long.

I have another couple of guys in NASA that have r9 thargas and ~2000 xenocrystals/1000 alien panels, yet did not spend a single cent on those resources.

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15 hours ago, xKostyan said:

not spend a single cent

No but their lives and kidneys I guess.

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16 hours ago, xKostyan said:

Destroyers have 2 movement impairing modules too.

Prem Guards and Ronin can actualy do almost LRF type of DMG with main guns

Prem recons and craft Cynin are easily dmg dealers with build in crits and dmg bonuses, spy drones that do xxxx tons of dmg by reducing healing and shield drain which is "white" dmg, and don't even get me started on proximity mines

 

16 hours ago, Spongejohn said:

The pure damage dealer are gunships, cov-ops and long ranges. Any of the modules from fighters you mentioned are supporting mods that works at their best when used in combination with other ships. Boosting damage output on fighters not meant for that, is usually a bad idea and (90% of the time) a waste of potential. Exception are always there oc.

 

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17 hours ago, Spongejohn said:

Also Recons have speed debuff.

Guard, tacklers and recons, let's see what is the thing that they have in common... Oh wait, there it is:

They are not the damage dealer of their classes.

Tha'rga is a gunship, guess where the problem is about giving all of them mobility debuff...

:facepalm:

 

Covert ops :

- White noise Jammer. One of the most powerful debuff, on a DPS class. 

- Pelegrine special : 50% heal debuff. Isn't it what recon do ?

 

Command :

- Valkyrie, one of the most powerful damage buff in game that outclass gunship's overdrive.

- Dart Harmonic drive : Wait, isn't crit buff for gunships ?

 

Tacklers :

- Why does their invisibility gives them a 20% damage buff ?

- Drones : WAIT, isn't building stuff the Engi role ? And why the hell are there active with the sole purpose of doing damage, on a ship that is not a gunship ?

- Target painter : ...

 

LRF -> IR pulsar. Guard -> Pulsar + damage buff on their special.

 

 

It's not because one role has a main purpose, that it can't has tools for something else.

Inibitor swarm is a skillshot that can be missed. Is not THAT powerful (far from a mass inibitor). And peoples won't suddenly use gunships to replace tacklers/guards, because it's far from effective enough. 

Even worse, it takes one slot. Slot that replace a purge/intuition/energy converter/speed buff/survival. 

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First off, show some respect to other players and stop acting like you are the only one entitled to discuss about balance or thar'ga. It just propel a toxic environment on the forum.

Tldr: don't facepalm anyone, it just makes you sound childish and makes people mad.

 You are comparing a 5 seconds manuverabily debuff against lrf\cov ops target lock jamming? You know that those debuff don't makes you blind but still able to shoot? Sometimes is even better to not have a lock since it's hard to hit high rotating ships 'cause of the ping compensation mechanic.

Apart that, 5 seconds are more than enough, since the implant to disrupt that effect last way less...

That said, apart some exceptions, ships that are not damage dealers can do tons of damage just incidentally thanks to fhe combination of some modules, but the truth is: apart some exceptions, if you buff a non damage dealer to do so: you are wasting the potential of the ship since the damage output from a gunship, cov, etc are always better.

A slowing beamer jag (gravi+slowing missiles+afterburner denial) is way more effective then a bubble jaguar in a battle. Sure the bubble jaguar will do way more kills... But the debuff jag is more deadly on the field since it can slow down all fast ship, lettin the team kill faster.

You cannot give an active debuff that can't be countered (again, 5 seconds is too much) to a gunship. On top of that, it have insane dps and a lot of survivability. 

The only good debuff you mentioned is the one from the peRegrine. But a cyning with slowing missile and a good gun fit can be way more deadly than the peRegrine one... Once again: exceptions, that have drawbacks...

I would love to see what's next, an ecm with a 100% buff at his own damage after his stunnning magics? Oh boy, I should not give them such ideas XD

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Swarm is affected by:

- Proton wall and 2-3 implants - reducing it's duration

- 8-2 proc

- Diminishing returns same way our other means of cc is reduced in duration on consecutive usage

And unlike slows from tacklers that only affected by 8-2, or ECM cc that is only affected by protons and diminishing, this affected by all of those factors.

 

 

Ships that are vulnerable to manoeuvrability debuff already have proton wall or at least 2-3 installed, and those are the ships that should have finger itching to proc 8-2 since those are the same ships that are vulnerable to Engine suppressor + gauss up into your a55.

 

The module is good, but just as swifter said it is not THAT strong.

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42 minutes ago, Spongejohn said:

First off, show some respect to other players and stop acting like you are the only one entitled to discuss about balance or thar'ga. It just propel a toxic environment on the forum.

Tldr: don't facepalm anyone, it just makes you sound childish and people mad.

Using a :facepalm: has never been disrespectful. It's not because you don't like it, that my post suddenly becomes harmful to peoples.

And it works the other way around. Using a :D don't suddenly make your post more respectful. 

 

42 minutes ago, Spongejohn said:

 You are comparing a 5 seconds manuverabily debuff against lrf\cov ops target lock jamming?

Yes, I'm totally comparing them. 

The way you criticise the presence of Inhibitor swarm on gunships is like "Damages class should only deal damage. Debuff class should only debuff". 

So I listed some modules that don't follow this rule. 

TLDR of my previous post : If gunships can't have a debuff, then I don't see why [insert list]  is allowed. 

You can say "Inhibitor swarm is OP due to XX combo". Not "This module should not exist on gunships". 

That's what I said. 

 

42 minutes ago, Spongejohn said:

Apart that, 5 seconds are more than enough, since the implant to disrupt that effect last way less...

No. That's not how the implant works. 

The implant totally remove the debuff. It doesn't just block it for 2 seconds. After these 2 seconds, the debuff won't come back. 

There's only one exception to this rule : Area of effect motor debuff, that will slow you once again after 2 seconds (slowing missiles or mass Inhibitor). 

 

So 5 or 50 seconds, that doesn't change anything. Use a multipurpose, and you won't fly straight at all. 

 

 

Also, IR pulsar and WNJ are extremely powerful. Far more powerful then Inhibitor swarm. 

Because they can totally disable stuff. Examples? 

No more ECM, tackler, recon. No more Scatter gun. No more th'lith.  And no more dag nith too. 

 

 

Finally, a command can easily deal more damage then a gunship due to valkyrie, but there's not problem with that. 

But when a gunship have a partial mobility debuff, then suddenly it's the end of the world? 

 

I don't get it. 

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16 minutes ago, xKostyan said:

Swarm is affected by:

...

The module is good, but just as swifter said it is not THAT strong.

It's way easyer to escape manuverability debuff from tacklers. They have a source, so once the enemy loose eye contact with you, you succesfully escaped the tackler (more or less).

Also, equippin a protonwall+implant 2-3 means a loss of crit chance or crit bonus, This days I would not give up any dps I can squeeze from my builds. But the main problem is the fact that "taking" cover loose importance as I said above.

Anyway: the module is not THAT strong, but was another tool like this really necessery for Thar'ga? (and no the fact that you can equip that on other gunships doesn't change things a bit)

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19 minutes ago, Spongejohn said:

It's way easier to escape manoeuvrability debuff from tacklers. They have a source, so once the enemy loose eye contact with you, you successfully escaped the tackler (more or less).

You aren't gonna easily brake a LOS under Engine Suppressor effect, whole purpose of it for you to not, and engine suppressor is way more deadly to agile targets than a swarm, especially considering that it most definitely will be combined with inhibitor beam as well.

23 minutes ago, Spongejohn said:

Also, equippin a protonwall+implant 2-3 means a loss of crit chance or crit bonus, This days I would not give up any dps I can squeeze from my builds. But the main problem is the fact that "taking" cover loose importance as I said above.

Looks to me we need ECMs buffed

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10 minutes ago, xKostyan said:

You aren't gonna easily brake a LOS under Engine Suppressor effect, whole purpose of it for you to not, and engine suppressor is way more deadly to agile targets than a swarm, especially considering that it most definitely will be combined with inhibitor beam as well.

Looks to me we need ECMs buffed

Just don't fly in open space in any ceptor and you will always (well if you still have healings and the implant on) escape a LOS debuff tnx to covers next to you. 

ECM spam can force me to equip a proton wall when I see too many of them in game, not all the time, all the games (tnx god people is not using anymore the waky ae)

You didn't answer btw, I know the module is not "game breaking", but: was it necessary?

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Nothing is necessary. 

So no, it wasn't. Was Heavy drones for tacklers necessary? No. 

 

But more content is never bad. 

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All i can see is a tomato/tomato post battle so let it be guys.

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56 minutes ago, Spongejohn said:

Just don't fly in open space in any ceptor and you will always (well if you still have healings and the implant on) escape a LOS debuff tnx to covers next to you.

Ofcourse you can break away with 8-2 implant...that is the whole point of it, you don't need a LOS for that. Requirement of LOS implies you can not drop an effect with anything else, in if you can not drop Engine Suppressor effect you aren't easily going to break a LOS

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58 minutes ago, Spongejohn said:

You didn't answer btw, I know the module is not "game breaking", but: was it necessary?

Was existence of Star Conflict necessary?

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21 hours ago, belisarius said:

32 xenos per day doing what? 1 xeno per 10 kills? 
So in your expert opinion whoever is getting killed in 2 shots by an overpowered gun or cannot shoot down a thar because it can survive sustained fire from a frig is stupid.
If you are teamed up with people who do not know the game you will lose no matter who you are. Smart or stupid. 
FYI I have landed at least 8-10 coil gun shots at a thar with a t5 frig and had NO EFFECT on the target. How much more OP can it get? 
A pathetic attempt to act as if nothing is happening and of course the majority of people who act as your target practice are not going to be here for long.

Missions, my fellow player. A lots of them.
Tharga cannot survive sustained fire from the frig I proved it to Greg today in my Trex-Mk2 and he wasn't able to take my shields down with his thark't. Also coil mortar sucks, as everyone and their mothers are flying kinetic resists now. Anything is better than coil mortar against tharga. If you are getting killed in 2 shots: put EB on, proper resists and know the place of your ship (however today someone inexperienced tried to take my octopus down in thar'ga. Well. he died). 
I fully agree - stupid team can lose the game no matter what, that's why I'm repeating that again - fly in squads. Guard + tackler usually make short work on any tharga.

I don't get the last sentence. Today I mostly played against NASA, Ninja, STORM and few other corps. Yes, I think they will be in this game for much longer. 

That's what is the current situation on live. What do you think about proposed changes on the public test server then?

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