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The current karma system is not realistic, nor useful, nor funny.

It lack so many things and make many false, so that the playerbase feel mostly negative about it.

1. Realism
Why it isn't realistic? You get penalized if you destroy faction transporter/escort ships/ships. You say it's right?
Yes and no. Why should a FEDERATION mercenary be penalized if he kill JERICHO transporter/ships? Aren't they at war? Weaken the other side should be rewarded!(But getting penalized of course on the enemy side/killing allied ones)
Second point: Non-faction mercenaries are protected the same way. Why? The help the fiend! Killing them should a) be possible(even if they have protection on as it's disabled in all other factions not beng their home station) and b) rewarded. Helping another faction is a negative act. So be on the right side mercenary!
2. Useful
Is their a use? Currently next to none! Out of achievements and a few tweaks their is nothing Karma system currently offer/reward. You are a hero, mercenary? You killed 285765672867 pirates/enemies/aliens? Sorry, but you get dust for that. Eh not even that.
3. Funny part
Because of direct and indirect restrictions, you aren't capable to fully use your capabilities in supporting/sabotage/doing what you want nor being rewarded and therefore not encouraged in doing so.

The short answer: Each faction get their own 'Karma' system. Even pirate ones(not sure about aliens, because yeah no interaction with them out of only being a threat). There is a suggestion(or more?) already made for a pirate station - explain later what this has to do with this suggestion.

So each faction has its own 'Karma' system now.
This mean, that anything you do give you points toward this(or reduce them).
Traditional Example: You kill a biomorph in Federation sector: You get 2 + points for federation karma.(and at the same time - points for aliens if they will have anything of value sometime)
Pirate Example: You kill a pirate in federation. You get again + point(s) for federation karma but - point(s) for pirate faction.
Transporter example: You kill a transporter from federation in federation. You get - points for federation karma, but + point(s) for jericho/empire/pirates. Why + points for other factions? Because secretly the other two big factions(jericho/empire) employ(and reward) persons doing such sabotage acts. And pirates: Convoy raids and destruction of faction belongings is in their desire. You show your 'loyalty' to pirates in such acts.
*Killing a predator: You kill a predator in federation. You get + points for federation AND a litte bit for jericho/empire. Why jericho/empire too? It's right that they wouldn't reward you for helping the false side, but such a target is such a (big) threat, that even helping the false is better as to have such a threating thing leaving alive!

This is the first part of revamp. Many will say, that this doesn't change anything or make things even worse(because of the split of the system).
But here comes the point:
You can now buy/get things from the factions! The more loyalty you show , the higher and more valuable it will be!
This means resources(normal), monos, equipment(bp) and even ship components(secret project parts AND those premium ship components).
Even pirates will offer - in their own way as smugglers - you rewards if you show enough of destruction power against factions and such stuff. Being on the dark side can be worthwile too!

So to the negative points:
You have NO protection as (for example) federation docked mercenary flying in jericho/empire sectors.
We have MORE systems you have to think of(and improve) as currently.
You will be maybe more penalized if you are negative to a/the faction(s). Maybe docking at such a station will be more difficult? You can give comments/suggestions how to handle a really bad guy for a faction. I'm unsure how to balance this.

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Agree, it could use some work and would like to see something done. Some bonuses to things too - like extra credit/synergy gain or better chance for rare drops with a higher karma.

 

But, do you know the point levels for each Karma? I can't find it anywhere.I have 11,900 Karma and still Level 1 (which I think was obtained all the way back at 1000 points). 

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If I remember correctly, I got my karma level 2 at around 15000. I currently have 42445 karma, and it's still level 2. Level 3 is probably 50000.

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I have to lie if I say for sure.
I can only guess that it's be around ~
1k
15k
50k
100k
500k

The easiest way to check this are the leaderbords.

Higher ranks doesn't give you a higher dropchance/rate for credits/synergy, but you can buy things with it, which is way more important AND not luck-based.

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29 minutes ago, Lord_Xenon said:

I have to lie if I say for sure.
I can only guess that it's be around ~
1k
15k
50k
100k
500k

The easiest way to check this are the leaderbords.

Higher ranks doesn't give you a higher dropchance/rate for credits/synergy, but you can buy things with it, which is way more important AND not luck-based.

Ah alright, thanks. Have done the leaderboard thing but couldn't find anything exact per se.  Also, what do you mean you can buy things with it? You can use Karma to buy things?

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Yes that's exactly the point. You can buy with the karma in a faction's store items then due your loyalty shown in OS.
Each faction have their own set of items they sell for the points.
And the pirates sell them all, but at a higher price(they can smuggle/raid/get everything).

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I don't think Feds and Jerries are at open war.

After your logic, if I sink a russian boat I should await karma from the states, being their historic rival. I am pretty sure, nobody would give me a medal, and it would be called terrorism.

In fact, if you complain about realism, besides, that realism is never really "fun" in games, I wonder why you would assume, all three major powers would be at constant war and shoot each others transports for fun? How is that realistic, while at the same time keeping up a jumpgate system between their territories, besides using the same economic system and even releasing their technology to be compatible to each other?

I mean sure, they don't embrace each other, and might be giving you missions to shred a few of the fanbois from the other side, but officially, the real problems are pirates and other outlaws, cults, and aliens, and karma is not bound to a specific empire.

With this being said, I do agree, that the karma system atm. is pretty much useless information for the most part, but thats only because open space itself lacks a goal. I also think this eve like karma system, where karma is actually your "standing" towards a specific empire would not really work in SC atm. - not that I find it bad per se. I also think the idea isn't particullary new.

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If you think so, you are a native mind. Open war is the worst you can do as nation. You waste resources without even knowing if you get anything with it done.
The times of armies fighting each other are already gone. Using them is only done to conquer territories or to weak specific forces for further actions. Spies and sabotage operate in the background. You can open state your anti-pirate mentality but hire secretly ones to do raid attacks against specific targets.

To the jumpgates: Do we even know WHO and HOW they function? Also do the FACTIONS control them? You don't cut off one of your trade routes.
And if they even can construct/control one, why they should OPENLY disable them to other factions? They could encourage pirates/cartel to take over 'control' of another faction territory to weaken them so(reduced trading/transporting/mining/using of it/forcing of military presence).

I haven't said that this is something new. You can hardly implement something new, as there are so many things out, that the chance to have something innovative is ultra low. But wouldn't such a system enhance the interaction WITH factions more as just +- we currently have? Why should someone like to be 'friendly' to empire, while his heart love jericho? But shooting empire penalize him with jericho too?

If you don't like of gaining points with another faction due transporter shooting - okay that's one comment, but is this AGAINST the whole suggestion or the particular part?
If we don't us our voice, the game will maybe don't grow so well as it could.

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you take this very seriously.

I just meant, any "fictional" open war scenario is usually very fictional, as wars lasting that long would have devastating effects over time on both sides. at the same time, in fiction, all parties are usually stereotyped so much, that alliances have to be forged as part of a storyline or sth. so realism is much rather, that e.g. even rivaling nations would cooperate on certain levels (as did russia with the US; in fact, Henry Ford planned and built their first large scale tank assemblies...), also in crime fighting - like piracy - or economy (like accepting each others money). So it is not "unrealistic" - that is all I meant.

no i just mean, the karma system is like a law and order vs. bad guys system atm. It only tells you, whether that particular citizen, when he is not fighting in registered wars as mercenary, is more of a guy who is nice, or even helps police do its work, or just as bad, as a pirate. It is basicly more an indicator how civilized the other pilot is, for you, as pilot, to know.

I get that you want more hot political situation, "Faction Warfare", and getting some opportunity to impress certain nations, like playing GTA. In fact, it would be much more ironic, if empire gives you loyalties if you destroy a jerri freighter, while you still lose karma "internationally" :p as part of a black ops mission.

But it kinda isn't the world atm, as all three empires fight aliens, and they have mercenaries solving their disputes in a "civilized" manner. The system you suggested, goes a bit away from what karma atm. is into a direction of becoming more a "standing" to a certain party. You can be hated in jerricho, but be recognized as lawful in fed space. While I like the idea, it seems a completely different system however if you implement it like that. And to be honest, I think, it would be a good idea for open space to have a system like this, especially with pirate factions. It would still not negate the "international" system of karma, which just gives you a clear indicator whether *any* police will open fire.

In the end, Eve uses the system in their mission making, as some corporations will indeed give you missions which makes you lose standing on other major parties, especially if they are more radical. But this is only possible because the world is made so colorful, that these nuances only begin to make sense after a while. And even then, it is kinda boring after a while. I suppose in SC this would have to be much more simpel to fit in. Of course, there could be secondary stations of all major parties with another contact who gives you more offensive black ops missions, and the occasional warzone where you join one of the sides, I suggested that long ago, so I am not "against" - just try to show it would not be just an upgrade, but a change to the mechanics, that might not fit without further enhancement.

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I get your point.
I can ask you: Why should defeating aliens/pirates in jericho give you the same sympathy for fed/empire? That's the same as you argue. It's an upgrade because you will have more interactions available.
1) You can buy something with it(improvement)
2) You can create your own liking(at 'war' with one faction and in 'love' with another)
3) Pirates!!!! Now you can be the bad boy and feel good with it.


How the loyalty is provided/lost can be discussed. It's the concept we have to talk first about it.

So would such a change to 3(4) 'loyalties' be okay?
With the possibility to buy something with your karma too?

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hm you mean, you get "extra" loyalty for killing pirates in a specific sector additionally? that would be awesome as incentive, but the problem is, such rewards in this game are all counted as progression, so i dont think they would add them extra :)

overall it is understandable tho, that it gives you karma for all three, no matter where you rat them pirates. it would make a difference if i get loyalty extra of course.

i dont want to overdiscuss it, because if you ask me, there are no easy fixes, OS imho needs a complete redesign / or heavily focused extensions, and a mindset shift to make it anywhere near interesting, from my point of view, anyway. There are good ideas in it, but its almost its own kind of game, or, like it is atm, just free flight with temporary missions to hide candy. So the karma is basicly just decoration, like a construction sign in the desert.

I do think your suggestion should be read as is, it definitely shows a bit of what people would expect.

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Karma revamp has green light from me lol 

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Current Karma system has a plus, it is pretty simple. It just let's you and others see how you act in OS for now, but we have plans for it in the future. I can not talk much about it yet, but we're also want to rework loyalty system. The development is already in progress)

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54 minutes ago, CinnamonFake said:

Current Karma system has a plus, it is pretty simple. It just let's you and others see how you act in OS for now, but we have plans for it in the future. I can not talk much about it yet, but we're also want to rework loyalty system. The development is already in progress)

 

That's some nice news, is the OS revamp gonna take place in the next year?

CinnamonFake (Posted )

Yep, it's aimed for next year

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1 hour ago, CinnamonFake said:

Current Karma system has a plus, it is pretty simple. It just let's you and others see how you act in OS for now, but we have plans for it in the future. I can not talk much about it yet, but we're also want to rework loyalty system. The development is already in progress)

 

I'm not making rocket science. To make it short for you: The current karma system SUCK. Sorry, but that's the truth.

The loyalty system is okay.

You make many promises of coming soonTM thingies...

CinnamonFake (Posted )

Cause a lot of work is going on, so a lot of things are coming

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Changing the karma system without changing OS elements would lead to a disaster. Just wait for the OS revamp.

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7 minutes ago, ORCA1911 said:

Changing the karma system without changing OS elements would lead to a disaster. Just wait for the OS revamp.

It wouldn't. Not my suggestion.

It would be something similiar to credits/upgrade kits/iridium for modules/crafting the secret project parts, just with buying them with karma(from a specific faction).

 

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