Woorooboo

In OS against the environment

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People seem to be really upset with the fact that some players got excited about one little perk of this game. In fact, this little perk is the main reason why I joined SC. Piracy in Open Space. A sandbox where there's no limit and it's dangerous enough to keep the challenge and the entertainment up even though I've been playing for about one year. Most part of the games do it for me in about a month or so, if not less, because after sometime, after seen what's there to be seen, I'd preffer discover something new. But hey, I finally found something different.

 

For months I've been watching OS been nerfed by less rewards and rage quitters that can not handle the fact that some people have ships better than theirs. I've been harrassed and even got some threats from some of these players. And right now with the station protection all over, it seems pretty bad, as OS became somewhat PvE.

 

I took a long grind to build a Jaguar to be able to handle myself out there. Got killed countless times and never really complained about it. I found a corporation, learned from them, got them to help me with assignments and players I could not handle. As I said many times before, I understand how this is a teamwork game. At least all the evidence point this way. Roles, squads etc.

 

I'm not happy with the station protection all over, it's a turndown and a few players I know don't even wanna play out there with me anymore. Most part of the time we killed players in open space, we were not only opoen to talk to them and help them, but we would even message tips and invite them to know us and figure thing out in a sportsman like behaviour. 

 

I really think this should be up to a discussion, a reasonable one, with more than simple deial and personal rants. It would be nice to find out what the community and the development think about the future of OS, as this is the only reason I play this game. I don't like sitting on the menu waiting for battles. I like roamming and never knowing what's gonna come up next. I like having a challenge that could turn out into a friendship or an epic battle. PvP or PvE just don't do it for me. It's a shame to not get a mineral or a misterious container because someone was faster and there's nothing I can do about it. It's a shame having all those accomplishments made pointless, because some people can't handle their loss.

 

I'll play over the weekend to see what happens with the new change. Looking forward to hear from all! Cheers!

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Well yesterday there was an epic battle between R11s to R15s in Station "New Eden" sector. Previously - lots of people were reporting killing even R6s in Blackwood Shipyard by highly specialised TEAMS (and no - not for cargo - debuff, two shots, fly away). So if player is interested in PvP in open space - he can turn station protection off (and many of players does that) or if he is interested in piracy - get negative karma and then he cannot turn station protection on. I think it gives few opportunities:

a) casual player - just wants to do his daily missions - station protection on, do the job, get back  to base

b) pvp teams/players - turn station protection off and go hunting 

c) pirate roles - instead of flying around map, you can go to the middle of the map where there is no station protection and you can hunt other players down. Your prey was too fast end fleed? Well, not his fault.

As far as I know there are few corps interested on OS pvp aspects, so I don't think you will have problems with finding opportunities.

 

good luck and good hunting!

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Open Space has always been pointless in my opinion.  From its inception it has been fundamentally incompatible with the core design ethos and target market for the rest of the game. This change to make OS a giant safe zone is a byproduct of the same thinking that banned TEAMWORK from a team-based game. However, in OS this design ethos actually works. Here's why:

 

Let's look at the overall focus and presentation of each mode. Specifically, we're going to look at a few core areas:

 

Player vs Player combat:

PVP - Whole focus of the mode.

PVE - Impossible.

OS - Restricted based on player choice and region.

 

Already we see a problem - OS is trying to cater to two completely opposite demographics.

 

Risk vs Reward:

PVP - Low. Players are rewarded for success, but punishment for failure is merely a short wait to respawn. Rewards remain consistent whether you win or lose.

PVE - High. Death is severe, and failure of the mode means a loss of most / all reward. Success nets large rewards.

OS - High to Extreme. Death is severe, resulting in total loss of progress and all rewards not "banked" up to that point. Success nets no immediate reward.

So OS doesn't know what it's doing here either - the risk structure is more akin to PvE mode, but that setup is not well received in PvP circles.

Teamwork:

PVP - Enforced. Players spawn in teams and friendly fire is nonexistent. Players may (now) squad to further teamwork.

PVE - Enforced. Players spawn in teams and friendly fire is nonexistent. Players may squad to further teamwork.

OS - Optional / discouraged. Players fly solo and no automatic teams exist. Accidentally turning players / AI hostile is possible, making spontaneous teamwork dangerous. Players may squad to further teamwork.

 

Again, note the shift in design focus away from teamwork. This was done from the outset.

Team Rewards:

PVP - Enforced. Teams succeed and fail together regardless of an individual's performance.

PVE - Enforced. Teams succeed and fail together regardless of an individual's performance.

OS - None. Rewards are individually based - team rewards require agreements between players to share loot, but no mechanics exist to enforce this.

 

 

So, we have a mode where combat is very risky with minimal reward, which pushes people towards fighting predictable AI enemies rather than unpredictable players; spontaneous teamwork is actively punished; teamwork of any kind does not share group rewards; and the design ethos is haphazard as to whether PvP was ever meant to be a driving goal at all.

 

Is it any wonder, then, that this game mode has become a PvE Only Solofest? This is the playstyle the mode actively encourages!

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Wow....

 

you seem pretty unhappy with open space, Jasan.

Coz I see it totally different.

 

If I travel from Empire to Fed, for an example, in about 30/40 minutes and not much effort, I can get around 10 million credits and 30k synergy, not to mention the karma points. That seems like a lot of rewards to me. It makes me happy.

 

@Niripas,

Now, what if I crash, reconstruct and someone with station protection steal my loot?

What if I'm escorting a transport and someone with station protection takes it out?

 

But honestly, my point here is: it hurts more than it could help. Not only people won't have any incentive to play it in a group, but they won't have fun fighting the same AI over and over. Other than that, it will turn down the learning curve and the game mode will become a basic PvE. Making such changes because people think they're being abused is a silly move, if you don't mind my opinion here. Because this is what the game is. I get killed too. Sometimes FROG, STORM, DEFT, and many others hand me my debris with ease and I never complain about it, coz I know this is a game and we're here to use our weapons on each other. Got killed by I higher rank? Grind with your friends to get a better one! Got killed by a better pilot? Get better to fight them! Is it really just me?

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Just to make it clear...

 

I really don't mind the decision. It's a bit frustrating to see the encouragement of the solo playing in a game based on teamplay, not to mention the fact that players avoid each other with super powers.

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I totally agree with you on every single word Woo :012j: .

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Well yesterday there was an epic battle between R11s to R15s in Station "New Eden" sector. Previously - lots of people were reporting killing even R6s in Blackwood Shipyard by highly specialised TEAMS (and no - not for cargo - debuff, two shots, fly away). So if player is interested in PvP in open space - he can turn station protection off (and many of players does that) or if he is interested in piracy - get negative karma and then he cannot turn station protection on. I think it gives few opportunities:

a) casual player - just wants to do his daily missions - station protection on, do the job, get back  to base

b) pvp teams/players - turn station protection off and go hunting 

c) pirate roles - instead of flying around map, you can go to the middle of the map where there is no station protection and you can hunt other players down. Your prey was too fast end fleed? Well, not his fault.

As far as I know there are few corps interested on OS pvp aspects, so I don't think you will have problems with finding opportunities.

 

good luck and good hunting!

 

So what you literally say is, that you are totally unsafe(protection off) to be able to fight PvP in previous patch sectors or are totally limited to  4(!) sectors not even be able to encounter a single player for half an hour?

I'm for station protection, as I don't want to be dead before I even could go out of the main sector - station sector - but this BS with not even be able to fight a player in high sectors is just useless.

They know the risk. They need high ships and they even can use different tactics to avoid confrontations.

But this is to much for the mindless brainzombie?

 

How is this satisfying?

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So what you literally say is, that you are totally unsafe(protection off) to be able to fight PvP in previous patch sectors or are totally limited to  4(!) sectors not even be able to encounter a single player for half an hour?

I'm for station protection, as I don't want to be dead before I even could go out of the main sector - station sector - but this BS with not even be able to fight a player in high sectors is just useless.

They know the risk. They need high ships and they even can use different tactics to avoid confrontations.

But this is to much for the mindless brainzombie?

 

How is this satisfying?

Because the majority of players only use OS to earn the 1 mono per day offered by their missions. A few really adventurous players do this for all three factions each day.

 

The people like you, who want PvP, are just an unnecessary and unwelcome obstacle to mono-acquisition.

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Hello everyone. I like playing alone or with corpmate in open space, attacking larger groups or strong players. Sometimes fights are so intensive that my heart rate increases, especially when I alone take on 5 players that are in the same group. I like open space for that. I like gaining negative karma, I dont like doing this on mobs. I like to pirate, fight for mysterious containers and crystals. I'd like to revert protected maps to the state like they were before, or unable to activate station protection with karma level +3 or -3

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Hello everyone. I like playing alone or with corpmate in open space, attacking larger groups or strong players. Sometimes fights are so intensive that my heart rate increases, especially when I alone take on 5 players that are in the same group. I like open space for that. I like gaining negative karma, I dont like doing this on mobs. I like to pirate, fight for mysterious containers and crystals. I'd like to revert protected maps to the state like they were before, or unable to activate station protection with karma level +3 or -3

That is a good suggestion!

Thank you for the constructive thoughts!

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Now, what if I crash, reconstruct and someone with station protection steal my loot?

What if I'm escorting a transport and someone with station protection takes it out?

what if your highest useful ship is r10 and the daily mono-mission requires you to jump several times through pvp zones, forcing you to escort a transport through the target zone while other players in their high rank ships have nothing better to do than farming lowlevels?

I don't like to be forced to join a corporation and waste the time of others by them escorting my ship while i am escorting the transport.

 

it's the same **** in every game with an open world, pvp is fine if you're on equal footing but some people prefer the no challenge mode despite zero personal gain other than the satisfaction of actually killing another player (which most of them probably fail in regular pvp)

 

 

of course there are topics like yours since you are already past the leveling stage; I for one appreciated the change. 

 

 

anyway how about automatically disabling station protection after being AFK for several minutes? That way it would put an end to AFK farming in open space and people like yourself could continue killing helpless players. win/win

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what if your highest useful ship is r10 and the daily mono-mission requires you to jump several times through pvp zones, forcing you to escort a transport through the target zone while other players in their high rank ships have nothing better to do than farming lowlevels?

I don't like to be forced to join a corporation and waste the time of others by them escorting my ship while i am escorting the transport.

 

it's the same **** in every game with an open world, pvp is fine if you're on equal footing but some people prefer the no challenge mode despite zero personal gain other than the satisfaction of actually killing another player (which most of them probably fail in regular pvp)

 

 

of course there are topics like yours since you are already past the leveling stage; I for one appreciated the change. 

 

 

anyway how about automatically disabling station protection after being AFK for several minutes? That way it would put an end to AFK farming in open space and people like yourself could continue killing helpless players. win/win

I can relate to that, mate! I did not start playing the game with high rank ships. But I had to grind and learn my way to get my ship and be able to handle the heat. Station Protection hurt you more than it helps. Prevents you from finding the solution, from making friends (believe-me... there's no such a thing as wasting time in a game if you're actually playing it - Every corporation should support their corp mates). My corporation even helps people from other corporations and non corporate players. One can find all the excuses for having station protection, I still think it spoils the fun and makes open space cold and empty. Sometimes, you have to loose to learn to how to win.

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what if your highest useful ship is r10 and the daily mono-mission requires you to jump several times through pvp zones, forcing you to escort a transport through the target zone while other players in their high rank ships have nothing better to do than farming lowlevels?

I don't like to be forced to join a corporation and waste the time of others by them escorting my ship while i am escorting the transport.

it's the same **** in every game with an open world, pvp is fine if you're on equal footing but some people prefer the no challenge mode despite zero personal gain other than the satisfaction of actually killing another player (which most of them probably fail in regular pvp)

of course there are topics like yours since you are already past the leveling stage; I for one appreciated the change.

anyway how about automatically disabling station protection after being AFK for several minutes? That way it would put an end to AFK farming in open space and people like yourself could continue killing helpless players. win/win

You saw the mission description. You looked at the sector with PvP marking. You can use the cancel button. You can organize friends/corpmates to help you.

What you just desribe is: Q.Q player. Nothing else. You want the easy way going.

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I suspect that not enough attention is being paid to how players want to play on aggregate. Speaking with players of various skill levels and ship ranks, there's a sizable number of players who just want to get their daily monos and go back to pvp / pve. OS isn't fun for them - it's a chore. In fact, since I'm routinely getting 2+ monos from normal play now I'm rarely bothering with OS at all!

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It seems to me, some people just don't appreciate the challenge of an open space.

I can understand that. Still, opinions vary a lot and the discussion will not end, because someone has a different point of view. In fact it will go further at every argument. In fact, it surprise me, the fact that most part of the time people talk about their personal PoV, rather than appreciate the facts. Some people, like, joined the game because of OS.

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I like OS, ive been enjoying each time more fighting aliens by my own. I think you could have some fun in a group going for solaris wasteland and trying to survive all the aliens...but better rewards are necessary to encourage things like this (perhaps sharing synergy through squads, better drops). Taking out the defiler seems like a nice OS boss...but...rewards.

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Heres a video from a game i used to play a lot named "Ace Online". It works as open space (sandbox instances conected by jump gates) but its oriented for PVP, and its great at it. Every day there were constant "wars" (PVP battles) at certain maps that allowed you to join and leave the battle whenever you wanted to. Whats the difference from SC? Ace Online has a teleport feature at the home base to reach certain sectors instantly and not just start from 0 like you do in SC (which makes reaching the center -sorting, smugglers, raiders, muerto- a long drive); theres also a map that encourages PVP a lot since it has no protection, its right in the center (no paralel maps making player numbers thin) and you can reach it fast; after dying you can respawn at the same map with a very low price for repairs (duplicators on the other hand are really expensive); it also dont take into account any stat so you can fight without worrying for them, specially when battles are heavily uneven (this can be really fun when players have a wide variety of quality of equipment and skill, making numbers a bad indicator for battle outcomes). Link here:

https://youtu.be/t5SK5vxRfnE?t=4m37s

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advocating pvp with no station protection in open space is really just asking to be able to destroy ships with 2 to 4 hits while they were doing something else. That's what you really want to do, and that is what it really is. Ship durability versus damage in Star Conflict (except for suppressor durability) is like that. Whoever got the first cheap shot is going to win. Whoever is out there camping in a squad or with a partner for no reason other than to fry someone while they're doing something completely unrelated is going to win. I'm aok with doing mono dailies without any hassle from other players. They could remove pvp and station protection itself altogether from open space, and I'd consider it an improvement. Pvp in open space makes as much sense as shooting someone for driving a boat on a lake in real life.

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advocating pvp with no station protection in open space is really just asking to be able to destroy ships with 2 to 4 hits while they were doing something else. That's what you really want to do, and that is what it really is. Ship durability versus damage in Star Conflict (except for suppressor durability) is like that. Whoever got the first cheap shot is going to win. Whoever is out there camping in a squad or with a partner for no reason other than to fry someone while they're doing something completely unrelated is going to win. I'm aok with doing mono dailies without any hassle from other players. They could remove pvp and station protection itself altogether from open space, and I'd consider it an improvement. Pvp in open space makes as much sense as shooting someone for driving a boat on a lake in real life.

I cant disagree more with you...except that in a few situations you can destroy ships with 2-4 hits, like when an adaptive interceptor gets slowed down and shot with a fullly charged gauss+doomsday...thats definately not my average day, even that i fly adaptive ceptors in OS a lot. You also get like 8 seconds of invulnerability after you jump a sector, its quite a bit. Fighters can tank a lot with a proper build and frigates...it would be sad to be killed in 4 shots xD

For your last sentence i totally disagree, If you saw the video i linked right above, the fun comes from PVP in an environment very similar to OS. This is one of the things i envy from Ace Online that totally beats SC.

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16 hours ago, Papitas said:

I cant disagree more with you...except that in a few situations you can destroy ships with 2-4 hits, like when an adaptive interceptor gets slowed down and shot with a fullly charged gauss+doomsday...thats definately not my average day, even that i fly adaptive ceptors in OS a lot. You also get like 8 seconds of invulnerability after you jump a sector, its quite a bit. Fighters can tank a lot with a proper build and frigates...it would be sad to be killed in 4 shots xD

For your last sentence i totally disagree, If you saw the video i linked right above, the fun comes from PVP in an environment very similar to OS. This is one of the things i envy from Ace Online that totally beats SC.

I still disagree with you too. I had a feeling it was going to be the "2 to 4 hits" someone was going to zoom in on because it wasn't widely variable enough. 2 to 4 hits wasn't meant to be literal and universal. So here I go making it more variable by manually typing much more on it instead of expecting common sense: We could go with Adam West's explanations that a damage dealer can kill an interceptor in 2 seconds, a fighter in 3 seconds and a frigate in 7 seconds. If it's not a suppressor, it dies fast when some full orange & purple rank 15 premium comes blasting in while the target player was doing something else. If we put up a scenario of what you're really asking for: a rank 8 Cerberus Lrf is not going to last even the 7 seconds indicated in Adam West explanations. What you're wanting is not for you to be the one out there without station protection in a rank 8 Cerberus. Hopefully, that gets past the focus on "2 to 4 hits" not being widely variable enough to where that one thing I said must mean everything else must be disagreeable.

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6 hours ago, Dazarco said:

I still disagree with you too. I had a feeling it was going to be the "2 to 4 hits" someone was going to zoom in on because it wasn't widely variable enough. 2 to 4 hits wasn't meant to be literal and universal. So here I go making it more variable by manually typing much more on it instead of expecting common sense: We could go with Adam West's explanations that a damage dealer can kill an interceptor in 2 seconds, a fighter in 3 seconds and a frigate in 7 seconds. If it's not a suppressor, it dies fast when some full orange & purple rank 15 premium comes blasting in while the target player was doing something else. If we put up a scenario of what you're really asking for: a rank 8 Cerberus Lrf is not going to last even the 7 seconds indicated in Adam West explanations. What you're wanting is not for you to be the one out there without station protection in a rank 8 Cerberus. Hopefully, that gets past the focus on "2 to 4 hits" not being widely variable enough to where that one thing I said must mean everything else must be disagreeable.

Thats talking about TTK. I wasnt, i was arguing in the context of open space, where players usually bring tacklers like jaguar or rockwell and fights arent 1vs1 standing still.

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Had it twice, that an inty recon tried to kill a r10 tackler. Joined the fight and attacked him so he stopped the xxxx. After his second try he either left the sector or just doing something else.
That's a dynamic process and you always had the big red letters warning you that such things can happen.
But now you have stopped the flow. Either you are safe or you just hide somewhere looking for a yellow guy jumping in the sector to be able to ambush him. No other can join the fight that isn't yellow as well and so big fights can only start if there are already 'good vs. evil' in the start.

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On 18.06.2016 at 3:56 PM, niripas said:

Well yesterday there was an epic battle between R11s to R15s in Station "New Eden" sector. Previously - lots of people were reporting killing even R6s in Blackwood Shipyard by highly specialised TEAMS (and no - not for cargo - debuff, two shots, fly away). So if player is interested in PvP in open space - he can turn station protection off (and many of players does that) or if he is interested in piracy - get negative karma and then he cannot turn station protection on. I think it gives few opportunities:

a) casual player - just wants to do his daily missions - station protection on, do the job, get back  to base

b) pvp teams/players - turn station protection off and go hunting 

c) pirate roles - instead of flying around map, you can go to the middle of the map where there is no station protection and you can hunt other players down. Your prey was too fast end fleed? Well, not his fault.

As far as I know there are few corps interested on OS pvp aspects, so I don't think you will have problems with finding opportunities.

 

good luck and good hunting!

Indeed, that the way to paly for those who wants to PvP in OS. Pilots of low levels just couldn't do anything against group attacks, it happened very often. They were unavailable to fly in OS. Now, even with the event is going, OS online has grown.

On 18.06.2016 at 4:43 PM, Woorooboo said:

Now, what if I crash, reconstruct and someone with station protection steal my loot?

What if I'm escorting a transport and someone with station protection takes it out?

That's the way of being pirate and bad karma.

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