A Guide to Resistances

[xKostyan_ 898]

Contents

1. Preface - What and why

2. Damage Reduction and Damage Factor - How resistance reduces incoming damage

3. Offensive Damage Amplification - The "sweet spot" for resistance reduction

4. Effective Health and the Linearity of Resistance - How the benefits of resistance are linear (not diminishing)

5. "Diminishing" Returns of EHP - The illusion of diminishing returns

6. Healing and EHP interactions - effect of resistance on incoming repairs

7. In game applications - ingame example

8. Conclusion - Meaningless generalities

 

 

1. Preface

It is commonly known on how resistance affects dmg reduction, there is a Dev’s blog about it, there are formulas floating around, there is a Ship stat window that shows you dmg reduction, but what does it actually mean? People keep using definitions of diminishing returns and how resistance loses its effectiveness above certain level, thing is it is not exactly true, these are a half truths.

Resistance never loses its effectiveness in its own, it scales linearly and each point of resistance gives you exactly the same amount of survivability no matter how much of it you already have, but when taken into equation with HP points, depending on numbers one will provide more than the other.

 

2. Damage Reduction and Damage Factor

 

Definitions

Health ( HP )

• HPS (HP Shield) - determines amount of shield, when shields are depleted dmg will be done to Hull.

• HPH (HP Hull) - determines amount of hull, when hull HP points are depleted you will meet the God of Respawn screen.

Outside of Armadillo implant that is not a part of this wall of text, HPS and HPH use the same formulas in relation with resistance and dmg taken, so i will be referring in general as HP

 

Resistance ( R)

Resistance is the in-game attribute that is used to calculate Damage Reduction. Higher Resistance value corresponds to less incoming damage.

 

Damage Reduction (DR)

DR is how much, by percentage, incoming damage is reduced. For example, a DR value of 25% reduces one-fourth of damage.  DR increases with resistance.

 

Damage Factor (DF)

DF is how much damage a hit actually does as a proportion of the listed damage. For example, for DF = 60%, a 2000 damage shot will only remove 1200 HP from the target.

 

Damage Reduction (DR)

 

for positive resistance:

DR = (1-1/(1+R/100))*100

DF = (1/(1+R/100))*100 = 100-DR

 

for negative resistance:

DR = (-R)

DF = 100+R

 

These are the basic formulas that are the building block of effective health.

 

DR Table:

DR Graph:

 

3. Offensive Damage Amplification

When talking about DPS, all you care about is how fast you can eliminate the target. If the enemy has 100 resistance, how much faster can I blow his ship up with use of target painter? If the enemy has -25 resistance because “awesome ship build”, is it really worth using Target painter?

 

This section identifies the "sweet spot" where target painter and implant Oculus II have the biggest effect. You can also see that TP and Oculus II still maintain usefulness even into the negative resistance range.

 

Damage Amplification

Damage Amplification will be defined, for the sake of this guide, the rate of change of the Damage Factor with respect to Resistance, divided by the original Damage Factor. It is essentially the increase of damage on a percentage basis.

 

For example, the enemy has a resistance value of 100 and you intend to decrease it by 29 (t3 mk4 Target Painter).

 

DF(100) = (1/(1+100/100))*100 = 0.5*100 = 50%

DF(71) = (1/(1+71/100))*100 = 0585*100 = 58.5%

 

The increase in Damage Factor is 8.5%.

However, the Damage Amplification is (0.585-0.5)/(0.5)*100 = 17%.

 

By lowering the enemies resistance from 100 to 71 you will destroy them 17% faster.

 

Table, Module Specific

This shows the total Damage Amplification from Target painters and Oculus II implant

Target painter variants:

T3 mk4 - 28.6

T4 mk4 (including implant WPN-FS3 and a bonus from Tiger II) - 41.5

T5 mk4 (including implant WPN-FS3) - 34.3

 

Table, Item Specific

 

Table, Item Specific

 

4. Effective Health and the Linearity of Resistance

 

Effective Health, or EHP, is another commonly referred to factor along with Damage Reduction. EHP is more meaningful to reality however, as explained in the definition below.

 

Effective Health (EHP)

EHP is the amount of unmitigated damage you can take before dying. For example, it takes 20 shots of 2000 unmitigated damage to kill a target with 40000 EHP. Due to this direct relation to unmitigated incoming damage EHP is the single best measurement of survive-ability (ignoring agility, maneuverability and dodge factors). Both HP points and Resistance contribute to the calculation of EHP.

 

Effective Health Formula

EHP = HP/(100 - DR) = HP/DF

 

EHP table for different HP values and Resistances:

 

EHP graph for different HP values and Resistances:

Linearity

As shown in the graph, the benefit of resistance is purely linear for positive values even though damage reduction is diminishing.

 

Every additional point of resistance gives the same benefit as the point before.

In other words, going from 50 to 60 resistance has the same benefit as going from 200 to 210 resistance. Not only there is no functional resistance cap, there is not even an upper bound where resistance becomes less effective.

 

Let's take the example above with 2000 HP:

2000 HP and  25 resistance gives 2500 EHP

2000 HP and  50 resistance gives 3000 EHP... a gain of 500 EHP

2000 HP and  75 resistance gives 3500 EHP... a gain of 500 EHP

2000 HP and 100 resistance gives 4000 EHP... a gain of 500 EHP

 

5. "Diminishing" Returns of EHP

While total EHP increases linearly with resistance, the percentage of EHP gain compared to current EHP naturally decreases. For example, increasing HP from 10000 to 11000 is a gain of 1000 or 10%. However, increasing HP from 20000 to 21000 is still a gain of 1000 but now only 5%.

 

6. Healing and EHP interactions

In SC healing is done by flat number not by percentage of your current HP pool, Hull boosters, auras, passive regeneration modules all heal a fixed amount of HP, meaning that if you have huge HP pool, it will take much longer to recover and you will be getting less benefit from healing during the fight than a someone with low HP pool but higher resistance:

Example (ignoring Shield/Hull various resistances and HP pool sizes)

There are 2 ship and both of them have 40 000 EHP

Ship 1: 20 000 HP and 100 resistance (50% dmg reduction)

Ship 2: 35 000 HP and 14 resistance (12.3% dmg reduction)

Both of them are under healing receiving 600 hp/s and were dropped to 1 HP so they have to recover 99.99% of their tank

 

It will take ~34 seconds to Fully heal Ship 1 (~2.9% EHP per second is healed)

It will take ~58 seconds to Fully heal Ship 2 (~1.7% EHP per second is healed)

 

Another major part in ships survivability plays the Hull boosters, that pretty much mandatory on majority of ship. Since it is a simple healing, same logic applies - lower HP pool+higher resistances will benefit and recover much more from activating a module, than high volume+low resistance builds. Which allows to stay in the fight longer and after calculating incoming heals have higher total EHP at the end.

 

7. In game application

Lets review 2 builds for Styx

Pic 1 - styx with base stats and no modules

Pic 2 - preference to HP pool

Pic 3 - preference to Resistance

 

Both of these builds are fairly common in game, with slight variation to shield module.

Active modules are pretty much standard and that is what you going to see on 99% good Engineers these days.

 

Build 1 (no modules)

Build 2 (Focus on HP pool)

 

Build 3 (Focus on resistance)

 

So here is what we have: (Kinetic / EM / Thermal)

B1 EHP H: 18524 / 29109 / 23816

B1 EHP S: 16479 /  9987 /  13183

 

B2 EHP H: 39685 / 56693 / 48146

B2 EHP S: 21478 / 13017 / 17182

 

B3 EHP H: 40134 / 53974 / 47054

B3 EHP S: 16479 / 15545 / 13183

 

As you can see the final difference between Hull EHP of B2 and B3 is minimal, well within 1 extra shot of a Gunship weapon of each type. For Shields EHP there is a slightly bigger difference, but it comes with acceleration penalty.

 

So if Styx gets jumped by a Gunship (assuming 100% accuracy, ignoring explosion maulus of a frigate and ignoring incoming healing) it would take almost same amount of time to take down B2 and B3 to zero, with B2 able to tank 1-2 extra hits.

 

But now if you look at Dmg amplification graph and see how much Target Painter T3 mk4 will affect you:

 

B2 ( Dmg amplification to hull): ~ 26.0% / 15%  / 20%

B3 ( Dmg amplification to hull): ~ 19.5%/ 13.5%/ 16%

Now lets look at incoming healing (and recovery rate)

 

Healing on Styx:

• Rep Station - 304 HPH/sec

• Nanodrone cloud - 127 HPH/sec

• Mass Shield generator - 190 HPS/sec

• Native shield regeneration - 103

 

431 HPH/sec

293 HPS/sec

 

B2 HPH: 28489 | SHP: 14319 | Hull 0-100%: 66 seconds | Shield 0-100%: 48.8 seconds

B3 HPH: 23066 | SHP: 10986 | Hull 0-100%: 53 seconds | Shield 0-100%: 37.5 seconds

 

So it takes 13 seconds longer to fully recover Hull points for B2 over B3, not much, but that is 25% longer, now scale it through the whole game.

 

As you look at how “good” Engineers play, they dont #YOLO charge into the prey (well sometimes :)) but they manage the dmg they take - recover - take dmg - recover - take dmg..., and there is a clear advantage in recovery part in B3. And that is if there is no Tackler, where difference goes wider.

 

8. Conclusion

 

• There are no benefits of going pure HP pool tank

• The benefits of Resistance are completely linear and there is no upper bounds for armor

• High Resistance / Low HP makes better use of health regeneration modules and effects

• In order to maximize EHP you have to balance HP pool and resistances and take into account incoming and self regeneration effects, incoming dmg types by tier, class, and role. (for good or for the worse, there are not many places to fiddle with HP pool/resistances, so at the end majority of the builds are fairly similar)

• Tacklers are awesome

 

Tool: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Vj1crltujP-8n9DkGtUMOeJaQQ_OWmoQXpgldlRipJc/edit?usp=sharing

 

As of Patch 1.0.1

[xKostyan_ 898]

Effect of Signature Maskin Mk4 on dmg reduction graph :

SM mk4

SM mk4+J10

Normal DMG reduction by resistance

Comparison of implants 1-3 vs 1-2 (HR1-SE vs Armadillo) as of patch 1.0.4 (15% on Armadillo)

Table can be found here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0fHnziUXhaqRmhZNzRLemM3Tzg/view?usp=sharing

[Gene__Inari 52]

As an Engineer, I always knew Resistances > HP Pool. Easier to heal tanky HP than to patch up a large pool. Similar EHPs, but with heals thrown in, resistance is king. But thanks for putting it into numbers and pretty graphs.

[Tillowaty 377]

[WolfKhanGeneral 1,302]

I like the post, xKostyan :D

Can I put in a request? Would you be able to show what happens when the resistance hits 400, instead of capping the graph at 300.

Thanks!

[Gene__Inari 52]

Is it even possible to have 400?

 

That's EVERY of 3 shield slots to a resist, on top of resist module, and guard's phase shield to even be in the neighborhood of 400.

[xKostyan_ 898]

I like the post, xKostyan :D

Can I put in a request? Would you be able to show what happens when the resistance hits 400, instead of capping the graph at 300.

Thanks!

do you mean extend the graph to 400? or just plain dmg reduction? because you could use a tool i provided at the end of the text, just input your resistanse values in it and hp pool and you get dmg reduction and EHP.

I guess i'll add a short "how to" on that tool.

[Rakza 423]

I don't know if you can also add the Signature masking (21.5 pts for a Mk4 without WPN-FS3 / 27 pts for a Mk4 with the WPN-FS3).

 

There is also the "Gigas II" implant and the "SR-Mark 3" that could be interesting.

 

Ps : 400 Resistances Pts = 80% 

[WolfKhanGeneral 1,302]

Thanks, and yeah, it's pretty easy to get over 300. on a guard, you only need two kinetic+ the guard's special module, though, more often than not, it'll just go to 250, or so with just one. However once you add in the couple of people baking you as a target, it can reach 300+. still, it's nice to know where you're at. You can also be buffed by a command for 30.1 points more to the shield.

As for getting to 400, I simply wanted to know it because that's where most people will be capping at.

Thanks for the tool, xKostyan :)

[Rakza 423]

 

 

Is it even possible to have 400?

Base Kinetic Resistance = 0 

3 Variative Shield Projectors = 76 x 3 = 228

Phase Shield turned on Kinetic = 150

Booster = 10

Gigas II Implant with 1 lock on you = 12

Total = 400

 

If you are using a Mk4 Multiphase Shield Adapter = 79

Total = 479 Resistance Pts.

 

 

Edit : Forgot the SR-Mark 2 Implant

[xKostyan_ 898]

I don't know if you can also add the Signature masking (21.5 pts for a Mk4 without WPN-FS3 / 27 pts for a Mk4 with the WPN-FS3).

Are these ingame values? 21.5% and 27% don't look right

Wasn't it 17% and 17%*1.2 (implant) 20.4?

[Rakza 423]

Are these ingame values? 21.5% and 27% don't look right

Wasn't it 17% and 17%*1.2 (implant) 20.4?

(21.5 pts for a Mk4 without WPN-FS3 / 27 pts for a Mk4 with the WPN-FS3).

 

I wrote the Equivalent in Resistance Points (instead of %), It's not 21.5 and 27% but Points

[xKostyan_ 898]

I wrote the Equivalent in Resistance Points (instead of %), It's not 21.5 and 27% but Points

Well if you translated it into resistance points, than you just follow the curve, find (dmg reduction) & (new resistance value) point on a curve 

Like if you have 100 resistance, you have 50% dmg reduction

Add 21.5 resistance to 100, and look up on the graph 121.5 -> ~55%

 

Anyways, added the plot for SM mk4 and SM mk+J10 into 2d post on a scale to 450 resistances

I like the post, xKostyan :D

Can I put in a request? Would you be able to show what happens when the resistance hits 400, instead of capping the graph at 300.

Thanks!

Will add another graph for some EHPs examples

 

P.S. Since Gigas 2 is a floating value depending on locks, just move on a crurve with 12 resistance increments on top of what is your current value.

P.P.S. Fixed the tool's formulas for negative resistance interaction with dmg modifiers.

[ArcTic 158]

Thanks for making that! I think i understand roughly half of it, but yeah! 

[xKostyan_ 898]

Thanks for making that! I think i understand roughly half of it, but yeah! 

If interested, try compiling a list of questions, there are plenty of people around that could help you out.

[FunkyDonut 50]

Very nice guide. Thank you for that. Pinned.

[SPIDERPORK 47]

Great post as usual ;)

Really thanx kost

[Aidenxu 11]

the DR table seprised me damn good. 

 

That explains why ion emmitter is so broken, not just op. And before the AM1A was tuned, is was even more OP, totally broken. 

 

A tackler's target painter can't even reduce the resistance of a single target by more than 40 points. While ion oppiter reduce it by 100 points after 2 second constant focued on the target. This is insane. Even more broken than a singu ball before it took so many nerfs. 

 

So, Ion Oppiter (I'll keep calling it like this until it is fixed...) is broken. Any weapon that can do resistance debuff is broken. 

[xKostyan_ 898]

Ion Emitter does not "reduce" resistances, per say, but rather ignores, meaning that no one else benefits from it, missiles/ other teammates shooting at target will not do more dmg than they already do.

 

And it is 1.3 second of uninterrupted dmg for full 100 resistance ignore, the moment it breaks you have to start 1.3 cycle again.

 

P.S. i do feel that Ions (+with dmg ammo) on OP side, but for the base dmg alone (allowing to scale it up with modifiers), not for the mechancis

[Aidenxu 11]

Ion Emitter does not "reduce" resistances, per say, but rather ignores, meaning that no one else benefits from it, missiles/ other teammates shooting at target will not do more dmg than they already do.

 

And it is 1.3 second of uninterrupted dmg for full 100 resistance ignore, the moment it breaks you have to start 1.3 cycle again.

 

P.S. i do feel that Ions (+with dmg ammo) on OP side, but for the base dmg alone (allowing to scale it up with modifiers), not for the mechancis

 

Oh, but Ion Oppiter is still op against any frigates. 

 

This encourage gunship-oppiter swarms, like desert engle squads with two of it and command plus tackler. All fighters and farming frigates so damn well at the present. 

[xKostyan_ 898]

Added J1 vs F1 comparison into 2d post (under spoiler)

[Volume 1]

Excellent comprehensive guide - very interesting for a new player, and I really appreciate seeing this - helped me decide on crew talent / skills for t1 and t2 (choosing shield/hull resistance instead of a flat increase in hull or shield numbers, which might scale better at a higher tier)

[APSingh 2]

Sorry,i know this is old topic, but just a quick question, is it better to have a regen mod or would the resistance mod offset it? And what would say the resistance value effective upto? Is their any need for going above 50% or even 35% since any increase above this requires a lot more points invested in?

[Lord_Xenon 207]

The points from 0% resistance --> 50% resistance give you the same benefit as the way from 50% resistance --> 75% resistance.
You invest in both cases the same amount of points AND get the same benefit.
Regen mod vs. resistance is a different approach as you need to evaluate your investment.
For inty mildly useful it's more or less a waste on frigates+.
Resistance is in most cases the king.

[Swifter43021 317]

1 hour ago, APSingh said:

Sorry,i know this is old topic, but just a quick question, is it better to have a regen mod or would the resistance mod offset it? And what would say the resistance value effective upto? Is their any need for going above 50% or even 35% since any increase above this requires a lot more points invested in?

Lots of health = Better take resist mod. 

Lots of resistance = Go for heal mod. 

 

Actually it's a bit better to stack resistances (+ survival kit) because there is something called engi.