betatrash

broke game modes

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tldr; out of all of them, domination is the least broken. it's a straight up contest of skill in holding 2 points, minus the map advantages. in order of broken-ness: combat recon, beacon hunt, detonation, capture the beacons, domination.

 

combat recon - mass inty rush can kill most commanders, especially if you warp in an engineer. pretty pointless mode and can be won in 30-60 secs with organized teams.

 

beacon hunt - 20 sec spawn hold, plus 30+ sec downtime is just broken... it allows the enemy who defeated you but didn't take the previous beacon to get 2 free beacon caps. (see post below)

 

capture the beacons + beacon hunt - ecm metastable and covert camo break these modes by being able to cap beacons. beacon+cover placement favors 1 side over the other in some maps.

 

detonation - ecm and covert disables still break this game mode often times. can't count how many times i've gotten free bomb plants flying ECM. also, bomb is invisible, so you can hide it...

 

domination - usually 1 beacon is mostly useless, since the 2 closest/defensible ones are usually taken+held. beacon placement also favors one side over the other in some maps.

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(moved from 0.9.5 patch discussion)

 

once again restating that the beacon hunt respawn mechanic is seriously messed up...

 

every time the enemy kills most of your team, without capping the beacon it leaves them completely free to cap the next 2 beacons uncontested.

 

why? because with a 20 sec wait to respawn after the beacon, by the time you get there, it will already be too late.

 

and the enemy can just as easily move their entire force to defend the next beacon if you're not attacking the current one (which usually makes no sense anyways, since even if you manage to cap it, you'll have 10 secs left on timer, and in effect all you will accomplish is prevent your team from spawning until 20 secs after the next beacon, since whoever holds the beacon last incurs that penalty).

 

just another day in the land of broken game modes.

 

why is there even a forced hold respawn?.... it makes absolutely no sense...

 

you are introducing a forced handicap that is entirely dependent on luck and timing.

 

i could understand a 5-10 sec spawn penalty for the holding team.. but to have to wait 30+ secs, then another 20 secs for spawn is ridiculous.

 

also, 20 sec is unrealistic since some beacons takes less than 20 secs to travel to, others take more, also depending on the ship you're flying.

 

but 50+ secs is crazy.

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well we seem to agree on capture the beacons and domination being the least broken.

 

they come down to contest of skill, fleet composition, etc... they're mostly deathmatch modes with objectives. one being elimination.

 

the other 3 modes are all dependent on a large element of luck:

 

detonation - disables, stealth plants, rushes. (was more tactical before when bombs could be seen at all times).

combat recon - rushes, bad commanders, bad initial team comp.

beacon hunt - spawn mechanics, initial team comp.

 

the poll seems to reflect that as well.

 

except most people just aren't aware of just how easy it is to kill a commander in combat recon:

 

get a covert or two to fly in camo'd, at that precise moment, warp a recon or 2 in to drain his shield and drop prox mines on him. if at all possible, have a ecm there or engineer to warp in and help out... guaranteed commander kill in 30-60 secs of game start.

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Possible solutions ...

 

 

Combat Recon

- can be solved by replacing captain with 2 beacons per team.

- deactivating one beacon will block respawn ability

- allowing beacons to be re-activated adds depth

- 2 beacons splits the team up and reduce tactical advantage of frigate balling.

* players might miss being empowered in-game. you could retain a captain role in CR as the only ship allowed to deactivate enemy beacons instead and is able to respawn.

 

Detonation

- I love this because it complicates beacon capping in a way that adds to depth and fun

- but a myriad of factors drags the game mode down unfortunately

- flag pull is probably better than flag push and I believe a CTF type rules would do better in SCon

- flag pull will reduce the separation within teams between attacking and defending duties. solves uneven importance between different ship roles and classes

- limiting interest to only your team's half of the map reduce cluelessness among inexperienced pilots yet incursions into enemy's half still has some value for vets

- there is no tactical advantage to frigballing as there is no need for it provided access to your 'flag' isn't a chokepoint.

- changing victory conditions to number of captures made instead of number of bases destroyed also eliminates the 'last base standing' chokepoint if you wanted to keep the flag push rules. would be a simpler fix actually but other flaws will still remain

 

Bacon Hunt

- This mode can be salvaged.

- It is in essence a Deathmatch type game mode. One that is popularly requested

- What breaks it is the victory condition centering around beacon capture

- Changing the scoring rules to something else (like number of kills required to win) would reduce the importance of that one single beacon

- You can retain the hunt aspect to it by giving beacon owners a team bonus instead of accruing points to win

- eg. hold beacon for 10 seconds add 1 kill point to tally -or- team that owns a beacon has perfect sensor vision ie. all enemies visible -or- reduced respawn times.

- frigballing issues in a deathmatch can be countered somewhat by giving different points for kills made on different classes eg inty=0.75 fighter=1 frigate=2.5

 

Both Domination and Capture the Beacons are fine as is. Their flaws is down largely to outside factors like corp v corp or small v big matches and really is a matchmaking topic.

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Not going to lie about detonation: I love picking interceptors off like M & M's on my Tackler with sentry drone and Gauss. That game mode (when played from a safe distance and letting others do the dirty work) is what gets me maniac medals. Is it broken? Stealth is a very viable way of getting plants, but sensor range is a natural counter to that method. Carefully placed frig balls on stations does work, too when placed properly (but I rarely see it done; almost every LRF I see attempting to frig ball a station is always panicky and plant the fields directly on the station and leave too many "safe" spots). I see no reason to want to go past my side of the field, so I feel a CTF rule set would help with that.

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Gamemodes are fine, Imo. 

Except Beaconhunt! But thats easy to fix: RANDOMIZE!

But, but, but... :effort: D:

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Combat Recon - You can counter it with a warp from your side to the enemy team or with a good frig ball (1-2 Engis + 2-3 Guards + 1 Command)

 

Beacon hunt - Each beacon has an active time of 60+ seconds. Maybe you loose 1 beacon, but you can still reach the next one.

 

Capture the beacon - In this case you should mention that you think these abilities are broken in the game mode, but not the game mode itself.

 

Detonation - The bomb being out of radar is currently a hot topic. 50% want to keep it as a tactic while the other 50% think it is some kind of abuse.

 

Domination - This won't affect each map, so it is better to mention the maps that you think are broken.

 

Furthermore, don't forget it is a team based game so good coordinated teams will always have an advantage.

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Combat Recon - You can counter it with a warp from your side to the enemy team or with a good frig ball (1-2 Engis + 2-3 Guards + 1 Command)

 

Beacon hunt - Each beacon has an active time of 60+ seconds. Maybe you loose 1 beacon, but you can still reach the next one.

 

Capture the beacon - In this case you should mention that you think these abilities are broken in the game mode, but not the game mode itself.

 

Detonation - The bomb being out of radar is currently a hot topic. 50% want to keep it as a tactic while the other 50% think it is some kind of abuse.

 

Domination - This won't affect each map, so it is better to mention the maps that you think are broken.

 

Furthermore, don't forget it is a team based game so good coordinated teams will always have an advantage.

CR: You have no idea the amount of matches I've won with NO Frigball. Let's just say non-Frigballing groups tend to act a lot better than those that do.

 

Beacon Hunt: Frigball is already camping the next Beacon, so no. And breaking that many Frigs in such a short period of time is next to impossible. Getting the next Beacon, as far as I've seen, in T3, is PURE LUCK driven, not even skill based, because of how bad pilots are.

 

CTB: It's a good game mode and, if you're smart, the LRFs won't even touch you. A pair of Recons are more than enough to take them all out.

 

Detonation: Don't you dare touch that bomb's visibility. I swear to god, I will push this game's xxxx in if you make it visible again.

 

Domination: There are several maps that aren't balanced, even in other game modes and they WILL need revisiting, at some point.

 

Good, coordinated teams. I must be playing a WHOLE different game then, because I keep getting paired up with full blown xxxx. Every. Single. Match.

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CR: You have no idea the amount of matches I've won with NO Frigball. Let's just say non-Frigballing groups tend to act a lot better than those that do.

- that's assuming the other side are nubs. anything works against nubs. do a 6v6 CR tournament conditions, tournament teams. Frigs will dominate unless you get lucky with that suicide run on captain.

 

Beacon Hunt: Frigball is already camping the next Beacon, so no. And breaking that many Frigs in such a short period of time is next to impossible. Getting the next Beacon, as far as I've seen, in T3, is PURE LUCK driven, not even skill based, because of how bad pilots are.

 

- agreed, except maybe on luck. it's more on which team has better killers. coz when a beacon activates it's a contest of who can kill whom faster so they can cap. It's a deathmatch. and current meta, Frigs and Inties are best for DMs. But Inties pop too easy and lack staying power so over time, frig heavy DM team will start to gain momentum as ships are stretched from respawning. Best gamestart strategy is to go all inty + 1 healer and phase frigates in as you cap / fail to cap beacons. If your team are able to take beacons from killing enemies faster, start spawning frigs to retain momentum and consistently keep beacons. Lower mobility is ofset by the fact that enemies are busy waiting to spawn.

 

 

Good, coordinated teams. I must be playing a WHOLE different game then, because I keep getting paired up with full blown xxxx. Every. Single. Match.

- it's coz all the vets are spread out from T3 to T5 where else before, everyone was in T3 and the beginners knew better than to join that tier without upping their team game. That culture is now lost and won't return until a bunch of you guys start to agree on which tier to meet at. I say T4, ... lets do it.

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Combat Recon - You can counter it with a warp from your side to the enemy team or with a good frig ball (1-2 Engis + 2-3 Guards + 1 Command)

 

Beacon hunt - Each beacon has an active time of 60+ seconds. Maybe you loose 1 beacon, but you can still reach the next one.

 

Capture the beacon - In this case you should mention that you think these abilities are broken in the game mode, but not the game mode itself.

 

Detonation - The bomb being out of radar is currently a hot topic. 50% want to keep it as a tactic while the other 50% think it is some kind of abuse.

 

Domination - This won't affect each map, so it is better to mention the maps that you think are broken.

 

Furthermore, don't forget it is a team based game so good coordinated teams will always have an advantage.

CR: Frigballs tend to be 12 minute matches from what I've seen.  Early rushers vary from constant to rare.  A coordinated group warp would help, good luck getting that outside of a corp match.

 

Beacon hunt: You could get to the next one, but too often half your team's going for the suicide push on the fully guarded beacon held by the other team.

 

Capture the beacons: Early rushes don't happen any more.  It's like a frigball's counter to beacon hunt.  I don't quite like the beacon status, but there does need to be some way to end the match without it being a 12 minute match or pure kill them all.  We don't want a lone microwarping recon making everyone sit around waiting.

 

Detonation:  I liked it always being visible.  Should I really be able to make an unassisted plant in a Jericho Guard in a 12v12 match?  I've seen frigball pushes to plant, but I've done it solo because of teams ignoring the bomb.  I do like those points for killing while holding the bomb though.  The team with a recon with 13km sensor range shouldn't be the dominating factor in who wins.  Imagine if there were combat drones on the beacons.  That could help maybe.

 

Domination: Too many just don't know the rules of winning.  At the same time, getting two beacons and squatting gets a win.

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Flying off the map with bomb is not tactic...just plain boring. Its more fun to dodge all those lazors/rockets to get to the station, then warp/invis away.

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Broken: any game mode that puts me with 2 bots against another player and 2 bots. If the other player has a frigate, it will be IMPOSSIBLE for me to win using my non-ECM ints.

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Broken: any game mode that puts me with 2 bots against another player and 2 bots. If the other player has a frigate, it will be IMPOSSIBLE for me to win using my non-ECM ints.

I agree.  In these matches, I either knew I'd dominate, gave it my all, rage quited(a couple of times in months), or said xxxx it and "KILLL!!!!!"  Even against a guard, and ECM can't disable long enough to kill and if he has proton wall installed you can't do it in an ECM.

 

At least with 3v3 with one bot on each side I could work with someone.  Hopefully they spoke english for more than motion and ping communication.  I think the game should be limited to 4v4 minimum, even if it required a notification of long wait times.

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