Jump to content


Photo

What is the point of frigates?


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 Nomad5151

Nomad5151
  • Members
  • 6 posts
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:00 PM

I'm not trying to ask a rhetorical question in order to start an argument, I'm actually curious. When I started playing it seemed that the smallest ships had 2 guns, next size up had 4 and the largest had 6. Each size got progressively slower and better armored to compensate. While I don't agree with the decision to remove 2 guns from the engineer frigates I can see why it was done to make them more of a supportive role. What about the Guard frigates though? I just bought an alligator frigate and it cant repair anything and doesn't have an really special abilities and it only has 4 guns. I often find myself loosing to a single fighter that can get behind me and stay behind me without me being able to hit him, and the times I can hit him I don't do enough damage to make a difference. Is there some function of this class of frigate that I'm missing? I don't see many people use them so I don't know.


  • 0

#2 JPhack

JPhack

    Sweet Roll Delivery Driver

  • Game Master
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,692 posts
  • 6 Thanks
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta, GA
  • Interests:Racing, Space Sims, MLP, Fanfics, Computer Builds, Consoles, and the answer to everything, 42

Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:29 PM

Guard frigates as the name implies guard the engineers. Simple. 

 

Because a guard is more of a heavy Tank than any other ship, coupled with healing with the engineer, then you have a force to be reckoned with. I play guard but cannot not be as much as guide to help you to play effectively with them. 


  • 0

7YbBgDQ.pngchILNYi.png


#3 WillOWisp

WillOWisp

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 120 posts
  • 0 Thanks
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:35 PM

Guard frigates are extremely good interceptor area deniers, a pulsar triggered in a swarm of interceptors will almost always net you a few kills. Sit one on top of a beacon and they will need fighters or frigates to budge you. Pulsar + Minefield is an incredibly effective area denier.


  • 0

#4 JPhack

JPhack

    Sweet Roll Delivery Driver

  • Game Master
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,692 posts
  • 6 Thanks
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta, GA
  • Interests:Racing, Space Sims, MLP, Fanfics, Computer Builds, Consoles, and the answer to everything, 42

Posted 24 May 2013 - 09:42 PM

Guard frigates are extremely good interceptor area deniers, a pulsar triggered in a swarm of interceptors will almost always net you a few kills. Sit one on top of a beacon and they will need fighters or frigates to budge you. Pulsar + Minefield is an incredibly effective area denier.

 

True, as an interceptor pilot, I can say that Frigates have the most kills on me, VERY rarely has another interceptor pilot or fighter done any serious damage to me or kill me. 


  • 0

7YbBgDQ.pngchILNYi.png


#5 Kine

Kine

    Air commodore

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,031 posts
  • 0 Thanks
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malaysia GMT+8

Posted 24 May 2013 - 10:05 PM

supposedly:

 

Interceptor kills Frigate

Frigate kills Fighter

Fighter kills Interceptor

 

but guard frigate got too difficult to kill especially when they use fighter class main weapons + pulsar so it got nerfed to 4 turrets

 

same thing happened to Engineers later, healing became an issue so dev took 2 turrets off, stuck the camera closer to make it easier to blindside frigs and boosted interceptor survivability

 

although reducing the difference between cruising and afterburner speed perhaps wasn't needed coz it almost cancels out the survivability buff.

 

 

 

 I often find myself loosing to a single fighter that can get behind me and stay behind me without me being able to hit him, 

 

This is intended - it's a battle between interceptors vs frigates. You have all the opportunities you need to kill him before he gets behind you. When he does, the odds are in his favor.

 

 

and the times I can hit him I don't do enough damage to make a difference.

 

this shouldn't be so because you have 2 extra turrets over an interceptor. the only exception is when your opponent is being buffed by healers.

 

 

I don't see many people use them so I don't know.

 

you'll see more of them in upper Tiers although maybe for the wrong reasons :P


  • 0

An8hJWE.png  4cwu54X.png

Why not make them stronger, like a Death Star 


#6 Nomad5151

Nomad5151
  • Members
  • 6 posts
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 24 May 2013 - 10:27 PM

If the point of frigate guards is to guard engineers, and they have the same weapons as engineers, why would you not just pick an engineer frigate to protect other engineers? That way you could also repair yourself and others around you. To me it seems that the guard is a useless subset of frigate.


  • 0

#7 Kine

Kine

    Air commodore

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,031 posts
  • 0 Thanks
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malaysia GMT+8

Posted 24 May 2013 - 11:08 PM

missile shield, pulsar and missile slots


  • 0

An8hJWE.png  4cwu54X.png

Why not make them stronger, like a Death Star 


#8 SoldiersFortune

SoldiersFortune

    Flying officer

  • Space Explorer Beta
  • PipPipPip
  • 833 posts
  • 9 Thanks
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Processing Rig, Federation Space

Posted 24 May 2013 - 11:19 PM

Engineer Frigs are the healers/buffers. They're a little too good at healing interceptors.

 

Guard Frigs are area denial/suppression, but don't do so well anymore due to losing 2 turrets.

 

Long Range Frigs are gender confused whether they are supposed to be covert intel (EWAC) or snipers. They are the only frigate that still has 6 turrets, yet are encouraged to camp at the rear.

 

EDIT: Not sure who is giving a thumbs down to every post I make lately... probably some twit out to ruin my reputation.


  • 5

Medals_zps5c97f74b.png


#9 Jacxis

Jacxis

    ☯ mostly harmless ☯

  • Space Explorer Beta
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,478 posts
  • 5 Thanks
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore

Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:04 AM

My greatest killing spree was achieved in a guard frigate, when my ship was literally hugging the beacon. As others have already stated, Pulsar and Minefields are your greatest assets when it comes to dishing out damage. Your main guns won't do much against interceptors and sometimes fighters as well (but that's what Pulsar is for), but you'll be able to hit engineering frigates still. 

 

And don't forget about your phase shield. You receive a damage boost for a short while when your shields absorb the same type of damage it is resisting. That essentially allows you to outgun engineering frigates.


  • 0

#10 residente

residente

    Elitist Pancake

  • Game Master
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,875 posts
  • 21 Thanks
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Madrid, Spain
  • Interests:Internet

Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:48 AM

Engineer Frigs are the healers/buffers. They're a little too good at healing interceptors.

 

Guard Frigs are area denial/suppression, but don't do so well anymore due to losing 2 turrets.

 

Long Range Frigs are gender confused whether they are supposed to be covert intel (EWAC) or snipers. They are the only frigate that still has 6 turrets, yet are encouraged to camp at the rear.

 

EDIT: Not sure who is giving a thumbs down to every post I make lately... probably some twit out to ruin my reputation.

 

Thubs up because I agree with almost everything and your posts are full of sense.


  • 0

image1.png?uid=3808619&m=0

 


#11 Ming_the_Merciless

Ming_the_Merciless

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 88 posts
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 25 May 2013 - 05:28 PM

As short range sluggers, Guard frigates confuse me.  They can't really track a fighter close in and thus have to rely on minefields and pulsar to deal with anything close.  Shouldn't they have some alternate short range system that lets them hit fast movers more easily?  In the alternative, shouldn't their close range firepower be more devastating? 

 

Likewise, long range frigates, aside from the sniper/torpedo, just have more gun turrets.  Shouldn't they have universal bonuses to projectile speed/laser time, shorter locking, and longer view ranges?  

 

I mean right now you can put Stabilized Rails or Hail Plasma on a gunship and have a more maneuverable platform and stay engaged in the fight longer.  

 

Likewise the engineering frigs have all the heals, but now the firepower is low enough with the buffed interceptors that they have no chance if anything gets close.  But they need to be in the thick of things to buff everyone. 

 

It just seems that the ship designs don't really complement the intended new roles.  


  • 2

#12 Nomad5151

Nomad5151
  • Members
  • 6 posts
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 25 May 2013 - 06:34 PM

As short range sluggers, Guard frigates confuse me.  They can't really track a fighter close in and thus have to rely on minefields and pulsar to deal with anything close.  Shouldn't they have some alternate short range system that lets them hit fast movers more easily?  In the alternative, shouldn't their close range firepower be more devastating? 

 

Likewise, long range frigates, aside from the sniper/torpedo, just have more gun turrets.  Shouldn't they have universal bonuses to projectile speed/laser time, shorter locking, and longer view ranges?  

 

I mean right now you can put Stabilized Rails or Hail Plasma on a gunship and have a more maneuverable platform and stay engaged in the fight longer.  

 

Likewise the engineering frigs have all the heals, but now the firepower is low enough with the buffed interceptors that they have no chance if anything gets close.  But they need to be in the thick of things to buff everyone. 

 

It just seems that the ship designs don't really complement the intended new roles.  

 

I agree with this completely.


  • 0

#13 Jacxis

Jacxis

    ☯ mostly harmless ☯

  • Space Explorer Beta
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,478 posts
  • 5 Thanks
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore

Posted 25 May 2013 - 09:06 PM

As short range sluggers, Guard frigates confuse me.  They can't really track a fighter close in and thus have to rely on minefields and pulsar to deal with anything close.  Shouldn't they have some alternate short range system that lets them hit fast movers more easily?  In the alternative, shouldn't their close range firepower be more devastating? 

 

When I was still flying my guard frigate (N. Zealot), I really relied a lot on my pulsar and my minefields. Offhand I can't remember if I used assault lasers or railguns, but as far as I remembered I was usually firing erratically and hoping that I would hit something. The only ships I could properly aim at and kill were frigates (as they approached), and people who flew straight at me.

 

Guard frigates can have decent firepower; if used well, phase shield can offer you a pretty nice damage boost (20%, if I'm not wrong). But that's if and only if your shots land. That's when I would cross my fingers and hope for divine intervention (i.e. slowing field missiles and tackler modules). 

 

 

 

Likewise, long range frigates, aside from the sniper/torpedo, just have more gun turrets.  Shouldn't they have universal bonuses to projectile speed/laser time, shorter locking, and longer view ranges?  

 

I mean right now you can put Stabilized Rails or Hail Plasma on a gunship and have a more maneuverable platform and stay engaged in the fight longer.  

 

I'd definitely agree about the longer view range. But why projectile speed and shorter locking? I believe some LRF pilots go for short ranged main guns for self defense, which would benefit from the additional turrets. Those bonuses wouldn't be as universally useful as a straight up damage boost for the main guns.

 

 

 

Likewise the engineering frigs have all the heals, but now the firepower is low enough with the buffed interceptors that they have no chance if anything gets close.  But they need to be in the thick of things to buff everyone. 

 

Agreed, but back then when they had more guns they were considered OPed. Still, I'm OK with less durable healers: it encourages teamwork. You'd better defend your engineer or risk having him/her die.


  • 0

#14 Kine

Kine

    Air commodore

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,031 posts
  • 0 Thanks
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malaysia GMT+8

Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:37 PM

I'd definitely agree about the longer view range. But why projectile speed and shorter locking? I believe some LRF pilots go for short ranged main guns for self defense, which would benefit from the additional turrets. Those bonuses wouldn't be as universally useful as a straight up damage boost for the main guns.

 

Better damage assumes your shots connect.

 

Right now, close range combat is almost out of the question for frigates - it's only fair we have bonuses to shooting from long range

 

Projectile speed and optimal range bonuses wouldn't be so bad for frigates as it won't undo the interceptor buff completely since we can't kill them half as good prior to the patch up close.

 

Also Engineer combat drones - I don't feel they contribute anything anymore - don't mind having it replaced with the Shield Barrier as special module and combat drone as Active. Or warp gate ....


  • 0

An8hJWE.png  4cwu54X.png

Why not make them stronger, like a Death Star 


#15 Ming_the_Merciless

Ming_the_Merciless

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 88 posts
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 26 May 2013 - 03:39 AM

When I was still flying my guard frigate (N. Zealot), I really relied a lot on my pulsar and my minefields. Offhand I can't remember if I used assault lasers or railguns, but as far as I remembered I was usually firing erratically and hoping that I would hit something. The only ships I could properly aim at and kill were frigates (as they approached), and people who flew straight at me.

 

Guard frigates can have decent firepower; if used well, phase shield can offer you a pretty nice damage boost (20%, if I'm not wrong). But that's if and only if your shots land. That's when I would cross my fingers and hope for divine intervention (i.e. slowing field missiles and tackler modules). 

 

That's kind of the point.  A guard frigate really is only useful close in if their pulsar is up.  They need to be effective during the pulsar cool down as well.  The missle interceptor, engine inhibitor and signal masking help, but they work best when the enemy is right on you, where you can't really shoot them without the pulsar.  

 

The projectile speed on the LRFs is to aid in their function as snipers.  At max range its still hard to hit a dodging interceptor.  You need to stack Jerico implants and acclerators in order to hit them.  Again, it should come built in on LRFs so they can use the slots for more interesting things.  

 

Right now most classes have one build that is optimal.  They need to change that by making the core ship stats good enough to accomplish the basic task.  


  • 0

#16 Luckyo

Luckyo

    Squadron leader

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,188 posts
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 26 May 2013 - 04:49 AM

You're missing the point. The guard frigate is a brawler designed to guard others. Like all other frigates, it mainly relies on others to guard himself. This is true for all frigates. You should choose guns depending on what you're expecting to face, but generally stabilized railguns/hail plasma make for the best option against fighters and interceptors while heavy weapons of various types make the best weapon for punching through enemy frigates.

 

That is why skilled frigate pilots stick together. They cover each others blind spots ensuring that coming from behind of one frigate gets you straight into crosshairs of another. This works decently well even in random queue.

 

On final note: engineers and guard frigates are designed to stick together. Find your "other half" and stay with him/her.

Attached Thumbnails

  • screenshot-130331-085419.jpg

  • 0

#17 Ming_the_Merciless

Ming_the_Merciless

    Sergeant

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 88 posts
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:51 PM

You're missing the point. The guard frigate is a brawler designed to guard others. Like all other frigates, it mainly relies on others to guard himself. This is true for all frigates. You should choose guns depending on what you're expecting to face, but generally stabilized railguns/hail plasma make for the best option against fighters and interceptors while heavy weapons of various types make the best weapon for punching through enemy frigates.

 

But no ship can really guard another.  A team can focus down an engineering frigate even if there are guards around it.  A guard frigate doesn't have a means of preventing that, it can only debuff targets within 1-2.5 k of itself, and zap out the occasional missile and pulse to push ships away, but it seems very limited.

 

I'd like to see guard frigates get the ability from the engineers to set up shields for the rest of the team, or stationary turrets, or share its shields with a buddy ship.  


  • 0

#18 Luckyo

Luckyo

    Squadron leader

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,188 posts
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 26 May 2013 - 05:44 PM

But no ship can really guard another.  A team can focus down an engineering frigate even if there are guards around it.  A guard frigate doesn't have a means of preventing that, it can only debuff targets within 1-2.5 k of itself, and zap out the occasional missile and pulse to push ships away, but it seems very limited.

 

I'd like to see guard frigates get the ability from the engineers to set up shields for the rest of the team, or stationary turrets, or share its shields with a buddy ship.  

Look at the screenshot above. You are massively underestimating the power of guard frigates. It has all the tools it needs to fulfill its role in good hands. Between the pulsar basically forcing non-healed interceptors to pack up and leave for duration, removing afterburners from everyone around itself ensuring that interceptors and fighters in close combat are sitting ducks, weapon suppression to reduce incoming damage and finally 4 guns which can be aimed at blind spots of those who you're guarding, you're a death machine in a right comp doing the right things.

 

There's a reason why they keep getting nerfed. There's also a reason why may's tourney was basically about frigates defending one another. Because getting in a range of a guard frigate was basically a death wish.


  • 0

#19 SoldiersFortune

SoldiersFortune

    Flying officer

  • Space Explorer Beta
  • PipPipPip
  • 833 posts
  • 9 Thanks
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Processing Rig, Federation Space

Posted 26 May 2013 - 05:48 PM

Guard frigs are supposed to be close range DPS boats, able to soak up and dish out incredible damage to anything stupid enough to sit still. At present, because of losing 2 turrets and the horrid FOV, they can't really do this. Guard frigates need their 6 turrets back, and they need to be able to rotate and fire all of them in a 360 degree arc.

 

Engineer frigs are supposed to be strategic healers/buffers. Currently their survivability is very low unless they are in a cluster of other healers, in which case they are invincible. Healing modules need a nerf, while the individual survivability of engineers needs a buff. Not more guns or DPS, but more armor/shields. They are the first ships targeted by enemy interceptors whether in the front or in the middle of the group. Flying in the far rear makes no sense, as most ships die before they can retreat.

 

Long Range frigs are supposed to be stealthy, behind-enemy-lines snipers. At present, however, their best feature is sitting still at the far back. Most of their modules encourage them to disengage from their team and camp. They need more stealth options that can be used while on the move. They shouldn't be as strong as Guards or Engineers, but they should be faster and harder to find. They also need a rapid deployment option (like a warpgate) so they can move around and escape quickly. They also need buffs that allow them to spot enemies for their teammates, much like a radar ship, that way they can still support their team even if they are separated.


  • 1

Medals_zps5c97f74b.png


#20 Luckyo

Luckyo

    Squadron leader

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,188 posts
  • 0 Thanks

Posted 26 May 2013 - 06:39 PM

Guard frigs are supposed to be close range DPS boats, able to soak up and dish out incredible damage to anything stupid enough to sit still. At present, because of losing 2 turrets and the horrid FOV, they can't really do this. Guard frigates need their 6 turrets back, and they need to be able to rotate and fire all of them in a 360 degree arc.

No, they are not. That is a false assumption. Tanks are not meant to dish out "incredible damage".


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users